AEM BEWARE!!!, Tuners please look, AEM vs Motech vs Microtech
Dec 21, 2003, 11:03 AM
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Al, very impressive. You are turning some nice #'s and seem to be well into testing all you can and pushing the edge (my kind of guy) . Here is a bit of what i have learned about all the diffferent units out there. All the stand alone units out there are a bit of a trade off. they use one chip and try to configure it to work with all makes. This works good but not great when you are pushing your engine beyond what the chip can handle. To solve the ignition problems they add buffers or patches to fake there own unit, now that is not right, it works but not right. When i finally found the Microtech and talked at length with the builder i was surprised to find out that they build each unit to work with the specific cars ignition system and they also have units that have internal ignitors that bypass the factory units but still use the factory coil. I believe that may solve some of your problems
Dec 21, 2003, 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Pesto360
Al...Id love nothing more than to go into my garage, and pull up that serial number...I drove my car for a total of...oh id say...about 1/4 mile before the aem went to **** on me ...kinda sad...
I think we need all the tuners to come on this board and really discuss which is best so no one else goes through what we have
Al...Id love nothing more than to go into my garage, and pull up that serial number...I drove my car for a total of...oh id say...about 1/4 mile before the aem went to **** on me ...kinda sad...
I think we need all the tuners to come on this board and really discuss which is best so no one else goes through what we have
AEM needs to start communicating with us all to let us know WHAT they are doing to fix the problems and they need to get them fixed
Next - I think some compensation is in order for us "test" mule victims who have had failures as a result of these problems
Finally - I really hope your engine is OK - usually when a turbo goes like that is a godo idea to take the whole engine apart and make sure no metal got into the oil
Dec 21, 2003, 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by maxrotor
Al, very impressive. You are turning some nice #'s and seem to be well into testing all you can and pushing the edge (my kind of guy) . Here is a bit of what i have learned about all the diffferent units out there. All the stand alone units out there are a bit of a trade off. they use one chip and try to configure it to work with all makes. This works good but not great when you are pushing your engine beyond what the chip can handle. To solve the ignition problems they add buffers or patches to fake there own unit, now that is not right, it works but not right. When i finally found the Microtech and talked at length with the builder i was surprised to find out that they build each unit to work with the specific cars ignition system and they also have units that have internal ignitors that bypass the factory units but still use the factory coil. I believe that may solve some of your problems
Al, very impressive. You are turning some nice #'s and seem to be well into testing all you can and pushing the edge (my kind of guy) . Here is a bit of what i have learned about all the diffferent units out there. All the stand alone units out there are a bit of a trade off. they use one chip and try to configure it to work with all makes. This works good but not great when you are pushing your engine beyond what the chip can handle. To solve the ignition problems they add buffers or patches to fake there own unit, now that is not right, it works but not right. When i finally found the Microtech and talked at length with the builder i was surprised to find out that they build each unit to work with the specific cars ignition system and they also have units that have internal ignitors that bypass the factory units but still use the factory coil. I believe that may solve some of your problems
I am very close to taking out the aem and just going back to my reflash set up which worked like a dream. I was only going with stand alones to get better data logging and loose the maf sensor
I have seem $200,000 custom Porsche turbo cars using reflashes from germany that run as well as a stock car with up to 800 whp
Dec 21, 2003, 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by DynoFlash
From my conversations with AEM it seems you are right on the mark about the buffers and patches - thats why I would like it of they would tell us exactly what they are doing and when they are going to do it
From my conversations with AEM it seems you are right on the mark about the buffers and patches - thats why I would like it of they would tell us exactly what they are doing and when they are going to do it
Dec 21, 2003, 11:26 AM
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Hey Pesto,
I will talk to the guys I know and get them to ad some info for you. I believe they will be happy to work closely with you and Al to get a system that you will love. You guys can got to there website www.microtechefi.com and download there software for laptops and check it out. They also have a nice dash unit that you can get very cheap and it allows you to modify your tune while driving but does not allow you to save it, that has to be done from the hand unit or laptop.
Max
I will talk to the guys I know and get them to ad some info for you. I believe they will be happy to work closely with you and Al to get a system that you will love. You guys can got to there website www.microtechefi.com and download there software for laptops and check it out. They also have a nice dash unit that you can get very cheap and it allows you to modify your tune while driving but does not allow you to save it, that has to be done from the hand unit or laptop.
Max
Dec 21, 2003, 03:06 PM
#22
Sorry to hear about your problems.
The AEM is a true stand alone engine management. To say that the cold start sucks is pretty silly. The cold start is something like every other parameter in the system that has to be changed and worked with. I would talk to the guys tuning the car if is sucks.
We got one of the first boxes released for the EVO. It was so new in fact that it is nothing more than a circuit panel, in other words it doesn't even have a case nor could it fit into a case.
Our EVO has had a crappy idle from the day I picked it up. Tym has worked hard at putting the AEM on the car and making it run correctly. I can say that in 2 days of working he had the car running better than it ever did new. This is with 680 cc injectors in it. The cold start is also GREAT. The car is a complete joy to drive now. We also ran 11.65 at 117.88 with this box in the car and on the stock turbo/engine/head.
Coming from trying to make the cars run on modified ECU's with VPC's, GCC's in the past I am telling you the AEM is the absolute best.
Maybe some of the problems are from AEM themselves but it also sounds like some are from improper tuning.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The AEM is a true stand alone engine management. To say that the cold start sucks is pretty silly. The cold start is something like every other parameter in the system that has to be changed and worked with. I would talk to the guys tuning the car if is sucks.
We got one of the first boxes released for the EVO. It was so new in fact that it is nothing more than a circuit panel, in other words it doesn't even have a case nor could it fit into a case.
Our EVO has had a crappy idle from the day I picked it up. Tym has worked hard at putting the AEM on the car and making it run correctly. I can say that in 2 days of working he had the car running better than it ever did new. This is with 680 cc injectors in it. The cold start is also GREAT. The car is a complete joy to drive now. We also ran 11.65 at 117.88 with this box in the car and on the stock turbo/engine/head.
Coming from trying to make the cars run on modified ECU's with VPC's, GCC's in the past I am telling you the AEM is the absolute best.
Maybe some of the problems are from AEM themselves but it also sounds like some are from improper tuning.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Dec 21, 2003, 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by davidbuschur
Sorry to hear about your problems.
The AEM is a true stand alone engine management. To say that the cold start sucks is pretty silly. The cold start is something like every other parameter in the system that has to be changed and worked with. I would talk to the guys tuning the car if is sucks.
We got one of the first boxes released for the EVO. It was so new in fact that it is nothing more than a circuit panel, in other words it doesn't even have a case nor could it fit into a case.
Our EVO has had a crappy idle from the day I picked it up. Tym has worked hard at putting the AEM on the car and making it run correctly. I can say that in 2 days of working he had the car running better than it ever did new. This is with 680 cc injectors in it. The cold start is also GREAT. The car is a complete joy to drive now. We also ran 11.65 at 117.88 with this box in the car and on the stock turbo/engine/head.
Coming from trying to make the cars run on modified ECU's with VPC's, GCC's in the past I am telling you the AEM is the absolute best.
Maybe some of the problems are from AEM themselves but it also sounds like some are from improper tuning.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Sorry to hear about your problems.
The AEM is a true stand alone engine management. To say that the cold start sucks is pretty silly. The cold start is something like every other parameter in the system that has to be changed and worked with. I would talk to the guys tuning the car if is sucks.
We got one of the first boxes released for the EVO. It was so new in fact that it is nothing more than a circuit panel, in other words it doesn't even have a case nor could it fit into a case.
Our EVO has had a crappy idle from the day I picked it up. Tym has worked hard at putting the AEM on the car and making it run correctly. I can say that in 2 days of working he had the car running better than it ever did new. This is with 680 cc injectors in it. The cold start is also GREAT. The car is a complete joy to drive now. We also ran 11.65 at 117.88 with this box in the car and on the stock turbo/engine/head.
Coming from trying to make the cars run on modified ECU's with VPC's, GCC's in the past I am telling you the AEM is the absolute best.
Maybe some of the problems are from AEM themselves but it also sounds like some are from improper tuning.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Dec 21, 2003, 05:10 PM
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okay - i have an AEM EMS.. i think in fact i was one with Buschar to get one of the first boards... and whao!! The basically prematurely offered to the marketplace. I mean yea the tuner has a world do with it but still some i think cannot be avoided.
I have seen the EMS evolve and it maybe getting better but at what costs? That 3037 turbo Pesto blew up isnt a cheap turbo... And as it may be the fault of HKS, i highly doubt that with all the problems that the turbo would die as well... broken an mirrors john?
we'll just have to wait and see i guess - in the mean time i seriously think AEM should step the **** up and take care of this matter before it is too late.
I have seen the EMS evolve and it maybe getting better but at what costs? That 3037 turbo Pesto blew up isnt a cheap turbo... And as it may be the fault of HKS, i highly doubt that with all the problems that the turbo would die as well... broken an mirrors john?
we'll just have to wait and see i guess - in the mean time i seriously think AEM should step the **** up and take care of this matter before it is too late.
Dec 21, 2003, 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Pesto360
But have you pushed it above 7200 rpm where it starts to draw more amps? Do you know anything about this microtech system? You used it on basically a stock car how come? Most people who buy an AEM EMS modify it way beyond what you did..Im sure you have other plans but for now isnt it a bit difficult to make an analysis on a stock application? Im sure you dont think its right what AEM did to us with this defective product and all the excuses and delays...sorry if this sounds choppy and abrupt I dont mean it that way ....but you seem to be very knowledgeable and your information and input is very valuable
But have you pushed it above 7200 rpm where it starts to draw more amps? Do you know anything about this microtech system? You used it on basically a stock car how come? Most people who buy an AEM EMS modify it way beyond what you did..Im sure you have other plans but for now isnt it a bit difficult to make an analysis on a stock application? Im sure you dont think its right what AEM did to us with this defective product and all the excuses and delays...sorry if this sounds choppy and abrupt I dont mean it that way ....but you seem to be very knowledgeable and your information and input is very valuable
ALSO - keep in mind they are on the STOCK turbo - which is fairly limited
MOST of the guys having the misfire issue are on bigger turbos suck as the guy in cali with the Gt40 who dumped a ton of cash at brainstorm and pesto and also myself - there are others also
Same issue - the AEM works great until you start to press the power and boost - in Pesto and my case - beyond 420 whp when it starts to misfire very badly
I have been through similar issue with old school TEC II system on my subaru
Anyway - as stated above - I know from past experience that the stock coils can do over 550 whp with ease at 30 lbs boost and 75 shot of nos added in
So I know the problem is with the AEM
In fact AEM told me they know there is a problem
"input voltage is dropping lower than we would like, so we are doing a hardwear revision, which is being sent today to frank at SFP for testing and evaluation" "when we get it fixed we will be upgrading all the boards"
The only issues I have are #1 - seems that AEM never had its own test evo to work with the product - and #2 lack of communication from AEM without major stress and many calls back to them
Pesto - i suggest you hold off on the microtech talk and keep the heat on AEM till they either fic the problem or refund back the $$ and compensate for the damages
Dec 21, 2003, 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by DynoFlash
"input voltage is dropping lower than we would like, so we are doing a hardwear revision, which is being sent today to frank at SFP for testing and evaluation" "when we get it fixed we will be upgrading all the boards"
The only issues I have are #1 - seems that AEM never had its own test evo to work with the product - and #2 lack of communication from AEM without major stress and many calls back to them
Pesto - i suggest you hold off on the microtech talk and keep the heat on AEM till they either fic the problem or refund back the $$ and compensate for the damages
"input voltage is dropping lower than we would like, so we are doing a hardwear revision, which is being sent today to frank at SFP for testing and evaluation" "when we get it fixed we will be upgrading all the boards"
The only issues I have are #1 - seems that AEM never had its own test evo to work with the product - and #2 lack of communication from AEM without major stress and many calls back to them
Pesto - i suggest you hold off on the microtech talk and keep the heat on AEM till they either fic the problem or refund back the $$ and compensate for the damages
Dec 21, 2003, 05:33 PM
#27
Wow.. This is really disturbing.. Does anyone have any input on the Motek unit (E6K or E6X?)
The one thing that appealed to me about the AEM and Autronic was the Plug and Play, which meant very few, if any new sensors, and not hacking up the stock harness.
I consider myself fairly knowledgable, and competant, but because I'm inexperienced in the ECU's specifically, I am taking a wait and see attitude..
So far after hearing all this, I'm inclined to stick with my S-AFC, and S-AVC, and let the base tune be done with Dynoflash and use the S-AFC to make minor adjustments.. (Al, you'll be hearing from me shortly when I finally get the rest of the parts I need to finish my car)
There is one thing that I do feel comfortable with, and that is at those HP Levels, an aftermarket CDI ignition may be your only way to go, but thats just my personal experience with Supercharged V8's, I suspect that no matter what solution you choose, ignition will become an issue no matter which ECU choice you make. (Though I've felt this way from the very beginning, in the "old school" world that I used to live in, an Ignition upgrade was one of the first modifications you would make)
Its not that the Factory ECU or Ignition system isn't good.. Quite the contrary its impressed me way more than any other car I've worked on.. But my car in its current trim (With very few modifications) is ALREADY experiencing misfires, regardless of its the wrong plugs, or gap, it does happen.
I have to admit since my car is a daily driver, I'm not quite on the bleeding edge of all of this but trying to learn as much about the platform from you guys, and taking the bits and pieces that I find valueable and using it in my car.
Obviously I'm not in any way known, or respected as a tuner.. But my gut is telling me that the factory ignition system has a glitch or some other gremlin.
Good luck guys, I feel terrible that you guys end up becoming test mules, but ultimately it benefits ALL of us.. I wish I could be there, no matter how frustrating and expensive, but I'm just a poor I/T grunt who does this as a hobby and very shallow pockets.
The one thing that appealed to me about the AEM and Autronic was the Plug and Play, which meant very few, if any new sensors, and not hacking up the stock harness.
I consider myself fairly knowledgable, and competant, but because I'm inexperienced in the ECU's specifically, I am taking a wait and see attitude..
So far after hearing all this, I'm inclined to stick with my S-AFC, and S-AVC, and let the base tune be done with Dynoflash and use the S-AFC to make minor adjustments.. (Al, you'll be hearing from me shortly when I finally get the rest of the parts I need to finish my car)
There is one thing that I do feel comfortable with, and that is at those HP Levels, an aftermarket CDI ignition may be your only way to go, but thats just my personal experience with Supercharged V8's, I suspect that no matter what solution you choose, ignition will become an issue no matter which ECU choice you make. (Though I've felt this way from the very beginning, in the "old school" world that I used to live in, an Ignition upgrade was one of the first modifications you would make)
Its not that the Factory ECU or Ignition system isn't good.. Quite the contrary its impressed me way more than any other car I've worked on.. But my car in its current trim (With very few modifications) is ALREADY experiencing misfires, regardless of its the wrong plugs, or gap, it does happen.
I have to admit since my car is a daily driver, I'm not quite on the bleeding edge of all of this but trying to learn as much about the platform from you guys, and taking the bits and pieces that I find valueable and using it in my car.
Obviously I'm not in any way known, or respected as a tuner.. But my gut is telling me that the factory ignition system has a glitch or some other gremlin.
Good luck guys, I feel terrible that you guys end up becoming test mules, but ultimately it benefits ALL of us.. I wish I could be there, no matter how frustrating and expensive, but I'm just a poor I/T grunt who does this as a hobby and very shallow pockets.
Dec 21, 2003, 06:03 PM
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Ok, i was asked to come here and shed some light on the Microtech systems for you guys,
basically i have been running them for over 5 years on my own personal cars, currently i have a LTX12 on my 13b turbo, making a easy 480rwhp on 14psi boost. i even have one fitted to my 327chev powered ski boat and my misses 99 toyota starlet with a 4efte motor.
the main advantage is you dont have to configure anything on the system it comes pre configured for your car! if you have a 4g63 it is set for a 4g63, same for the 4g93, 13b turbo etc,
every wire in the wiring loom is labled to where it goes, makes install a piece of cake,
as for ign systems, we have been making over 550rwhp with the stock microtech igniters and bosch coils, no boosters or cdi systems,
if any one has any questions ask away
Dale
basically i have been running them for over 5 years on my own personal cars, currently i have a LTX12 on my 13b turbo, making a easy 480rwhp on 14psi boost. i even have one fitted to my 327chev powered ski boat and my misses 99 toyota starlet with a 4efte motor.
the main advantage is you dont have to configure anything on the system it comes pre configured for your car! if you have a 4g63 it is set for a 4g63, same for the 4g93, 13b turbo etc,
every wire in the wiring loom is labled to where it goes, makes install a piece of cake,
as for ign systems, we have been making over 550rwhp with the stock microtech igniters and bosch coils, no boosters or cdi systems,
if any one has any questions ask away
Dale
Dec 21, 2003, 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Pesto360
The issue I have...AEM never told me my car would be the guinea pig "being sent to frank at sfp for testing and evaluation"? what the F*&k is that??? they are using my car as their test mule...im ripiing this **** box out and getting my money back...Mules endure alot of pain and torture...they gave us these boxes saying they worked...the only reason Im focusing on the microtech is they work..everywhere i look people say they work right..and everywhere i look people complain about motech aem and autronic...I brought this up to some of the people on the rx7 boards and these guys are all very knowledgeablke on high rpm high boost applications they all say microtech...I could be wrong about it...but please explain why...either way..the aem is out I wont deal with this ****....I put alot of money in this engine and it wasnt built to be a f*cking mule...what ***** those guys have
The issue I have...AEM never told me my car would be the guinea pig "being sent to frank at sfp for testing and evaluation"? what the F*&k is that??? they are using my car as their test mule...im ripiing this **** box out and getting my money back...Mules endure alot of pain and torture...they gave us these boxes saying they worked...the only reason Im focusing on the microtech is they work..everywhere i look people say they work right..and everywhere i look people complain about motech aem and autronic...I brought this up to some of the people on the rx7 boards and these guys are all very knowledgeablke on high rpm high boost applications they all say microtech...I could be wrong about it...but please explain why...either way..the aem is out I wont deal with this ****....I put alot of money in this engine and it wasnt built to be a f*cking mule...what ***** those guys have
As for the test mule - maybe they wanted to use that guy nick as the test mule??
I can not believe that didnt tell you that you were one of the first and you were getting an evaluation unit. Dosnt AEM give those out for free????
Seems a bit fishey to me . . . and maybe AEM isnt the only one to blame in your case?????
Dec 21, 2003, 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by 10sec_rx7
Ok, i was asked to come here and shed some light on the Microtech systems for you guys,
basically i have been running them for over 5 years on my own personal cars, currently i have a LTX12 on my 13b turbo, making a easy 480rwhp on 14psi boost. i even have one fitted to my 327chev powered ski boat and my misses 99 toyota starlet with a 4efte motor.
the main advantage is you dont have to configure anything on the system it comes pre configured for your car! if you have a 4g63 it is set for a 4g63, same for the 4g93, 13b turbo etc,
every wire in the wiring loom is labled to where it goes, makes install a piece of cake,
as for ign systems, we have been making over 550rwhp with the stock microtech igniters and bosch coils, no boosters or cdi systems,
if any one has any questions ask away
Dale
Ok, i was asked to come here and shed some light on the Microtech systems for you guys,
basically i have been running them for over 5 years on my own personal cars, currently i have a LTX12 on my 13b turbo, making a easy 480rwhp on 14psi boost. i even have one fitted to my 327chev powered ski boat and my misses 99 toyota starlet with a 4efte motor.
the main advantage is you dont have to configure anything on the system it comes pre configured for your car! if you have a 4g63 it is set for a 4g63, same for the 4g93, 13b turbo etc,
every wire in the wiring loom is labled to where it goes, makes install a piece of cake,
as for ign systems, we have been making over 550rwhp with the stock microtech igniters and bosch coils, no boosters or cdi systems,
if any one has any questions ask away
Dale