Having run e85, I would never in 10 million years go back to pump gas.... I don't think many would. You can't make up 80 whp, knock resistance, and lower combustion temps with less fuel in the tank and better efficiency.

 

Considering his goal of 450whp (assuming dynojet), that is easily obtainable without the need to go to E85 nor having to go to a very large turbo.

 

BBK Full ported, Kelford 272's take my vote.... i couldn't be happier with mine. 426/371 at the wheels for me, and that sounds like where you want to be.

 

E85 is for EGT control and knock resistance. Pumpgas will start to knock unless you run the boost pretty low. On a stock motor this limits you to a 3076HTA at the smallest and a 35R is probably a better fit. If its a larger motor it uses airflow so a given boost level makes more power.

A standard trip to the track (PIR roadcourse with or without the chicane) on 92 octane, an FP Red, S1s, and 413whp-

One 20 min session- Start off with some Torco in the tank (around 94-95 octane). No to little knock and mostly only in 5th on the front straight at the end of the session.

Second session- more pronounced knock activity and definitely in 5th on the straight some in 4th. Solution add 1 pt Torco bump octane to around 99.

3rd session- more like the first with no knock on the front.

4th- repeat the 2nd session conditions and cure.


OR.....

Just run E85, make more torque and power without adding any knock.

Aaron

 

I'm curious, with 500 whp do you find a need for significant aero? I'm at just over 400 whp and run with a healthy dose of 100 octane to fend off knock as I am running stock block and don't have an easy way to cart E85 to the track (no trailer yet). The car seems pretty stupid quick at 400 whp, I can't imagine running 100+ more whp without significant aero upgrades.

For the guys that are taking E85 to the track (since none of them seem to offer it at the pumps), are you trailering it up, or jamming a ton of E85 jugs in the car, unloading them in the paddock and filling up between sessions? I have an E85 pump 7 miles from my house, I just haven't made the switch because I haven't figured out how I'm going to get the stuff to the track and for my current setup I don't feel a need for more power.

 

I would say with 500whp aero tuning becomes significant. Im only around 300whp and feel some minor tweaks with aero are definately noticed.

 

so heres a question for OP or anyone with higher hp track evos. Has anyone considered a 50 trim Garett? Wouldnt it be more efficient and have overall lower egt on the track, with more top end compared with a stock frame turbo upgrade? I have been lately co-driving a mildly built Mr2 turbo at the autox with a 50 trim t3/t4. Its tuned down to 14 psi and honestly the lag is not even as bad as some of their ct26 wheel upgrades I have autoxd in the past.
I dont have experience with a this setup on an evo so thats why I am asking. I know a stock frame evo turbo upgrades like a bbk full or HTA Green can get you those numbers, but wont a 50 trim get you there with less boost and better top end?
--- Again, sorry if these questions seem naive but Im just curious.

 

Needing aero really depends on the tracks you run. The horsepower really only factors in on the straights and acceleration zones and some tracks don't have too much of this. More power can also be pretty tame on nice safe tracks with good runout and smooth surfaces. When I started tracking at Miller in Utah, you could throw lots of power at that track really safely because it had safe runout everywhere and the acceleration areas were fairly simple. But now running at Pacific Raceways most of the time it's kinda gnarly. The front straight includes turn 1 which is blind, changes surfaces, and has not great runout - and I think my car will do 160-165mph through it. I'm still working my way up to that with my top speed at about 155 right now. Aero has helped in making the car feel stable in this section as well as giving more grip in the braking zone.

For e85 I live close to the track, so I drive there with a full tank, and then carry 20 gallons in four 5 gallon cans. Two in the trunk with my tools and jack etc, and two in the back seat. I know some guys in Cali do like 4 cans in the backseat and 3 or 4 in the trunk. I can get four 30 min sessions out of that which is good enough for me .

50 trims have never been really popular, but AMS and CBRD made really good power with them. CBRD developed a time attack turbo for a few cars called the TAK 33R and it used 50 trim like components. But now with the Garret GTX and BW stuff I would go that route.

The thing to remember about a road race motor and turbo is that it sees serious use/abuse. This isn't a 3rd or 4th gear glory pull up the on ramp for your buddies every now and then. It's WOT for 30 mins straight for a good portion of a day. You need to run a boost level that is well within the efficiency island of the turbos compressor map, you need to run mild AFR's, and timing that isn't at the limit. Many of the dynographs on this site of peoples currently sweet setups will create dangerous conditions when pushed road racing. Just keep these things in mind when looking at what people are doing with a specifc setup.

 

Very cool post man, thanks for the information. I'll have to see how do-able it is to lug fuel up with me, as I live 1.5 hrs+ away from the track and there are no stations near the tracks I run at.

I've noticed that you can relatively easily hit a plateau of power with a stock-block Evo, and to break past that limit requires running unacceptably close to the safety margin for a road race car, atrocious lag, or huge quantities of cash. If you do shell out the cash for a built motor, you are going faster so you need more aero, better brakes, etc which means more $$$.

Also, like you said, road racing is 30 min of WOT at high rpms, often in extreme heat. I've been running almost 50/50 93/100 octane fuel at my current boost levels, and the car definitely feels quick, but I know eventually I'm going to want more power, and the only way up for me is better fuel and/or a built motor.

Given the local availability of E85 for me, it makes the most sense to bite the bullet and swap to corn. Getting the stuff up to the track will be a pain in the butt, but not unmanageable.

 

If you want to see what a 50trim is capable of, look up my dyno charts. IMO it is a very capable street turbo and works quite well when paired with a 2.0L. However if I had to do it again, I'd probably go the route of a BBK. Although if (and right now that's a big if) the EFR turbos can deliver on their hype, then that's what's going on my car next.

l8r)

 

A BBK Full is essentially a 50 trim in a stock frame turbo. I believe that was the goal Chad had when initially designing the BBK Full. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Wow this thread is still going? A lot has happened since I started this thread on my end.

So here are updates on my end:

I decided to build my stock block so I sent my block off to MA performance for a short block build. Specs on the new block:

9:1 Manley Pistons
Manley 156mm H-beam Long-Rods
ARP Main, connecting, head bolts
Balance shaft delete on block

I ordered a MA EF3 turbo aswell.

My head goes to the machine shop this week, Port polish and GSC S2 cams and beehives.

I also got a Full Race Pro- Stock manifold and a ETS 3.5 Intercooler.

I think my power goals are well within reach now. Thoughts?

 

Sounds beastly dude! 2.0L? I just found out today that there are several locations near me for E85 I didn't know about before... so I'm pulling the trigger on a Corn-Conversion myself. I'll be running at Summit Point on the 20-21st for Summer Breeze on my regular mix of 93/100 octane but after that I'll be making some changes to the car.

Make sure you make a big post (with pics) when you get your new setup up and running.

 

Yep a 2.0L I am pretty stoked to say the least.

Nice about the E-85, I am excited to run myself and I will have a build thread going for sure.

 

Pseudo build thread:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...track-car.html