I hate to see people posting the red and black spool the same. Black would be a no brainer if it were true. it would make the red obsolete.

I can see where the blunder statements come from. On dyno back to back they will both make about 300tq at 3800RPM. but driving both tells a different story.

I drove chris's car with both red and black. not a 2.3 but was spooling exceptional for a 2.0 mivec setup. the black hit 570tq at 4100 rpm. What happen between 2000-4000rpm was very significant. The black suffers huge losses in torque. To me as a daily driver the black was unbearable compared to the FUN red response.

 

Well, part of the problem there is that the dyno only tells half the story. It tells you a lot about WOT spool characteristics in a particular gear, but nothing at all about partial boost partial throttle situations, boost loss during shifts, and street manners of the setup.

I'm sure there is a definite change in manners between the Black and Red especially in those situations, but for WOT situations in 3rd/4th gear the spool is very similar between the two. The top end is also different enough that since the OP said he was really focused on drag racing it could be a solid bet.

Obviously its probably best to just build the 2.3/2.4 motor and run the Red and see if he's happy with it. If he likes the spool and hits the target numbers he's hoping for then mission accomplished. If he wants to squeeze a bit more top end out, then send in the Red for the conversion.

 

seems we comprehend different.
OP original question clearly indicates how the car will be used.
365 days of the year car needs to be fun.
he also wants to be able to track car three times a year.

you get his main focus is drag performance?

its amazing how many times on these forums people get misled into buying a larger turbo than they actually should get. I for one am quite sick of it. the large turbo thing has all but ruined this hobby.

the reality is people with 600+hp goals rarely have a running car. not even close to fun if your car doesnt even run in the first place.

if some one did a pole on how many purchased a black sized turbo or larger and recorded how many weeks out of the year the car ran like it was supposed to, the results would be a real eye opener. ran like it was supposed to means you are enjoying 550whp or better.

 

My car runs all the time unless I am working on it. My car has never broke anything. knock on wood. My favorite setup is still my stock motor 540whp FP Red. I beat the shiz out of it for 2 years and never had a problem.

Mikey

 

A bit of a regression, Mikey, but....did you ever happen to configure your old Red turbo with your new, one-off, single scroll turbine housing and run it on your 2.4L motor. Or have you only run the Black on your 2.4? Sorry for the OT guys. Just curious.

EDIT: I'll bet that a Red turbo configured with your single scrolled housing and bolted up to your ER LR 2.4L engine on E85 could probably come frighteningly close to eclipsing the current Red HP record of 570 WHP. But, I guess that we'll never know.

 

Hey Sparky,

Who owns the 570whp Red record? Haven't seen that.

 

Nope, no Red on my setup. I would try it just to see what it would make if someone let me borrow at Red to destroy for them.

It is Curt Brown. With 570whp on DBs MD. So around 650whp on a DJ.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...d-br-dyno.html

Mikey

 

Oh, nice. Well, whenever I get around to doing this MIL.SPEC 2.3 build, I wonder if I can get close to Curt Brown's numbers. Might need some ceramic wheel bearings, though

 

CB's accomplishment seems especially noteworthy because the number was achieved at a relatively low boost level(37#)using a 2,3L Mivec engine on E85. Pretty impressive.

The old record belonged to 9sec9 at about 560(BR MD). 9sec9 used a BR 2.0 liter motor but at a much higher boost level(42#) on race gas with Alky/H20 injection.

 

Does anyone know if 9sec9's Red was configured with the newer 84mm compressor housing , or not? I think that the Red on that car was the old style smaller comp housing, right? Also, was 9sec9's car using the stock ECU w/o SD?

 

I know. I like to aim high and will have some secret sauce parts of my own. Of course, I have no timetable for when I'll get around to doing this build lol

I have been sitting on parts for awhile.

 

Kool, Erik! Best of luck. Will you be using an FP Red too?

 

That's the plan. Looking for a street monster, and I think the Black is too much for me. Don't need 700whp. Don't want it. 550ish is good enough for me, with better turbo response

 

You are exactly right. The primary goal is to have a fun car on the street. When I said few times to the track I meant 3 times per year at the most. And I simply meant I won't be racing anywhere with turns. I enjoy acceleration on the street once in a while. You know the feeling . It gets my blood pumping.

No worries though. I definitely know I don't want a black. I wasn't exactly thrilled losing spool up going from stock to Red, losing a little more is not acceptable for me. When I blew my motor it was not fun nor funny to me. I'm not a baller and I don't have the ability/cash to rebuild motors often. I'm basically trying to get an exciting build that will be fun on the street (not a record breaker) and will hopefully last longer than the 50,000 miles my stock block held up for.

I'm mostly interested in going with a 2.4 at this point. I'd like to add as much bottom end as possible. It's a shame that I can't beat a stock neon from stop light to stop light if I stay out of boost. That's the one thing I never liked about my car. It was either slow as ***** or fast as hell. It seemed like there was no in between.

There are good replies in the thread and I appreciate everyone's input so far. Originally I was thinking GSC S2's or Kelford 272, but if I'm going with a 2.4 I didn't even think of doing a more aggressive cam. Since I'm a newbie I'm still learning a lot. I'll make sure I'm 100% confident with every choice I make this time around. It sucks to learn from mistakes by bad part choice. I'm just hoping my clutch is good enough for what I'm looking to do. That's really my only worry at this point.

 

I'm not sure if it's been said here or not, but why not a FP Green?
I wish i had.