Ground Points
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From: Ulster County, NY
Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Remember that while sparking, current goes from one side of the coil to the other, not to ground, and the coils are driven off the ecu, they are not grounded at the head eitheir. I have my coils on my car wrapped in an insulator with absolutley no grounds other then the wires, and one of us hear runs 11's at the same speed Al does on stock ignition.
Remember that while sparking, current goes from one side of the coil to the other, not to ground, and the coils are driven off the ecu, they are not grounded at the head eitheir. I have my coils on my car wrapped in an insulator with absolutley no grounds other then the wires, and one of us hear runs 11's at the same speed Al does on stock ignition.
Think about it - the high current flows to the spark plug ( to the center electrode actually ) and jumps the
gap to the ground electrode on the other side which is - wait for it - screwed into the head, thus completing the circuit.
Notice that nowhere did I say additional ground wires help this process. As was said - couldn't hurt and they look pretty...
Mike's dad
Last edited by mikesevo8; Jan 9, 2004 at 01:17 PM.
well i have the hks grounding kit for my car. and say all that u want but my engine bay looks bad *** and i do feel the difference. i don't think companys like hks would make sumthing that wouldn't work.
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Originally posted by mikesevo8
That is true for the primary side of the coil; not so for the secondary side.
Think about it - the high current flows to the spark plug ( to the center electrode actually ) and jumps the
gap to the ground electrode on the other side which is - wait for it - screwed into the head, thus completing the circuit.
Mike's dad
That is true for the primary side of the coil; not so for the secondary side.
Think about it - the high current flows to the spark plug ( to the center electrode actually ) and jumps the
gap to the ground electrode on the other side which is - wait for it - screwed into the head, thus completing the circuit.
Mike's dad
Brad
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Originally posted by SidewaysEvo
well i have the hks grounding kit for my car. and say all that u want but my engine bay looks bad *** and i do feel the difference. i don't think companys like hks would make sumthing that wouldn't work.
well i have the hks grounding kit for my car. and say all that u want but my engine bay looks bad *** and i do feel the difference. i don't think companys like hks would make sumthing that wouldn't work.
If you think that about hks, you have never seen alot of their products(FCD, 2 3/8 inch exhaust, their old filters...and I could go on...) nor know much about how the real world works...
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From: Ulster County, NY
Originally posted by bradrs
Mikes dad, thanks for playing, but you are wrong. The spark current (which is a LOW current, not a high current as you state) flows to the spark plug and jumps the gap to the ground electrode. It then flows through the head to the - wait for it - ground electrode of the other plug on that coil. After reaching that other plug, it flows through the gap, and back to the coil, thus completing the circuit. At no point does the secondary current flow to ground. You are also wrong about saying that the primary does not flow to ground, it just doesnt do it at the coil, so why ground the head?
Brad
Mikes dad, thanks for playing, but you are wrong. The spark current (which is a LOW current, not a high current as you state) flows to the spark plug and jumps the gap to the ground electrode. It then flows through the head to the - wait for it - ground electrode of the other plug on that coil. After reaching that other plug, it flows through the gap, and back to the coil, thus completing the circuit. At no point does the secondary current flow to ground. You are also wrong about saying that the primary does not flow to ground, it just doesnt do it at the coil, so why ground the head?
Brad
Let me get this straight. You are telling me that the electricity that creates the spark in, say, cylinder 1 jumps
the #1 spark plug gap, goes over to #2, waits for just the right moment to create the spark for plug #2
to fire that cylinder, then returns to the coilpak, thus completing the circuit????
You may want to rethink this ...
For your statement to work, wouldn't the head have to be electrically isolated from the rest of the system ??
Else there is a terrible "short" in the circuit.
And of course, everything flows to ground eventually; or to be more specific, the negative battery terminal.
Adding additional ground wires directly back to the terminal does provide a "cleaner" path for some of this power than just through the chassis.
Last edited by mikesevo8; Jan 9, 2004 at 02:06 PM.
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Originally posted by mikesevo8
Let me get this straight. You are telling me that the electricity that creates the spark in, say, cylinder 1 jumps
the #1 spark plug gap, goes over to #2, waits for just the right moment to create the spark for plug #2
to fire that cylinder, then returns to the coilpak, thus completing the circuit????
You may want to rethink this ...
Let me get this straight. You are telling me that the electricity that creates the spark in, say, cylinder 1 jumps
the #1 spark plug gap, goes over to #2, waits for just the right moment to create the spark for plug #2
to fire that cylinder, then returns to the coilpak, thus completing the circuit????
You may want to rethink this ...
Originally posted by mikesevo8
For your statement to work, wouldn't the head have to be electrically isolated from the rest of the system ??
Else there is a terrible "short" in the circuit.
For your statement to work, wouldn't the head have to be electrically isolated from the rest of the system ??
Else there is a terrible "short" in the circuit.
Originally posted by mikesevo8
And of course, everything flows to ground eventually; or to be more specific, the negative battery terminal.
Adding additional ground wires directly back to the terminal does provide a "cleaner" path for some of this power than just through the chassis.
And of course, everything flows to ground eventually; or to be more specific, the negative battery terminal.
Adding additional ground wires directly back to the terminal does provide a "cleaner" path for some of this power than just through the chassis.
Brad
Last edited by bradrs; Jan 9, 2004 at 02:11 PM.
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Originally posted by bradrs
If only you knew enough about electronics to appreciate the irony of your attempted sarcasm....
While you are spending time and $$$ grounding things that don't need to be grounded, might I suggest:
5) Windshield washer nozzles. When you put in those bling bling LED ones, you got to ground them good. I noticed my LEDs were much brighter after this. I didn't even need to use my headlights for night driving anymore.
6) ECU case. You will need to drill a hole through your firewall and run a welding cable through, but this is the best way to ground the ECU properly.
7)Exhaust tip.I noticed after grounding my chrome tip, the exhaust note changed from a high pitched buzz to a deep rumble. It sounded like I installed cams, and was much faster.
8) ECU sensors. The ECU sensors are grounded with tiny wires. Adding 8 gauge wire going from each sensor to the battery ground will increase the electron flow, and make them respond that much faster.
9)Battery positive. The ultimate grounding upgrade. This allows so much more current to flow than any other ground setup, you won't believe the difference in power. Not for the faint of heart.
I claim no responsibility for any catastrophic results that may occur when you follow these suggestions. Blame it on Darwin.
Brad
If only you knew enough about electronics to appreciate the irony of your attempted sarcasm....
While you are spending time and $$$ grounding things that don't need to be grounded, might I suggest:
5) Windshield washer nozzles. When you put in those bling bling LED ones, you got to ground them good. I noticed my LEDs were much brighter after this. I didn't even need to use my headlights for night driving anymore.
6) ECU case. You will need to drill a hole through your firewall and run a welding cable through, but this is the best way to ground the ECU properly.
7)Exhaust tip.I noticed after grounding my chrome tip, the exhaust note changed from a high pitched buzz to a deep rumble. It sounded like I installed cams, and was much faster.
8) ECU sensors. The ECU sensors are grounded with tiny wires. Adding 8 gauge wire going from each sensor to the battery ground will increase the electron flow, and make them respond that much faster.
9)Battery positive. The ultimate grounding upgrade. This allows so much more current to flow than any other ground setup, you won't believe the difference in power. Not for the faint of heart.
I claim no responsibility for any catastrophic results that may occur when you follow these suggestions. Blame it on Darwin.
Brad
provided grounding kit. Of course wouldn't know anything about Evos... At least it's a home-made kit (for a whopping $15) so of course it's double worhless.But then I guess improving my average peak HP by 4 whp while having a smoother idle and more responsive throttle are all just a waste of time.
Last edited by erioshi; Jan 9, 2004 at 03:13 PM.
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From: Ulster County, NY
Originally posted by bradrs
Nope, you didn't get it straight Mikes dad. There is no wait, The current flows from the secondary, to the first plug gap, creates a spark, then to the other plug, creates a spark in it at the SAME TIME as the first one, then back to the coil. Current flows in loops, that is basic electrical engineering that was taught in my first circuits class. This is why this setup is also called wasted spark, because it creates that extra unneeded spark in each cylinder. Maybe you should rethink your posting about electronics?
Why would there be a short? Both sides of the coil are floating. If the head is grounded, then thats its reference, and you will get one side of the coil sitting above ground, the other below it. No big deal.
Wrong, the secondary coil current doesn't flow back to ground. It flows in this neat little loop back to itself. "Cleaner" is a euphimism for "I don't really know what I am talking about, but maybe this sounds technical enough someone will buy into it". Now that hopefully you understand why you are wrong on the coils, you can give me another example of how its going to improve power and the idle?
Brad
Nope, you didn't get it straight Mikes dad. There is no wait, The current flows from the secondary, to the first plug gap, creates a spark, then to the other plug, creates a spark in it at the SAME TIME as the first one, then back to the coil. Current flows in loops, that is basic electrical engineering that was taught in my first circuits class. This is why this setup is also called wasted spark, because it creates that extra unneeded spark in each cylinder. Maybe you should rethink your posting about electronics?
Why would there be a short? Both sides of the coil are floating. If the head is grounded, then thats its reference, and you will get one side of the coil sitting above ground, the other below it. No big deal.
Wrong, the secondary coil current doesn't flow back to ground. It flows in this neat little loop back to itself. "Cleaner" is a euphimism for "I don't really know what I am talking about, but maybe this sounds technical enough someone will buy into it". Now that hopefully you understand why you are wrong on the coils, you can give me another example of how its going to improve power and the idle?
Brad
You are right. I forgot about the Evo's shared coilpaks. I stand ( actually sit ) corrected and humbled.
On another note, I wasn't actually avocating the use of more ground wires to increase spark.
Please go back and read you post. You didn't have to be so, shall we say, ill tempered. There's no reason to stop acting like a lady...
When I challenged your statement, I hope I didn't come of that way; if I did I apologize.
Last edited by mikesevo8; Jan 9, 2004 at 03:03 PM.
don't talk ish about things u don't have. how do u know it doesn't work. I have the hks exhaust and I love it. and I am sure u ask anybody that has it they love it too. I have the hks suction kit and it is pretty good too. so don't knock it until u tried it and don't hate. and obviously u don't know anything about the industry. and the fcd was made for one thing to prevent fuel cut. if u don't like it don't buy it. hks wouldn't still be in business if they sold crap
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If it really increased your power by 4HP, and cost you $15, don't you think Mitsu would have done it at the factory? It would have been practically free for them to do, and that 4HP would be whole heck of a lot cheaper than many of the other things they have to do to try to wring the last bit of performance out of it. Just because Mitsu sells it as a factory add on, doesn't mean it makes power. It means that someone there saw how how the ground wire craze is in Japan, and decided they want a cut of that money.
Thats good that at least you didn't pay ridiculous sums of money for the wires. If you like the looks, enjoy. I just don't like to hear people being misled about their benefits.
And yes, I do like torturing kittens. This is my next project:
http://bonsaikitten.com/
Brad
Thats good that at least you didn't pay ridiculous sums of money for the wires. If you like the looks, enjoy. I just don't like to hear people being misled about their benefits.
And yes, I do like torturing kittens. This is my next project:
http://bonsaikitten.com/
Brad
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Originally posted by mikesevo8
OUCH --- dad got owned !!!
Please go back and read you post. You didn't have to be so, shall we say, ill tempered. There's no reason to stop acting like a lady...
When I challenged your statement, I hope I didn't come of that way; if I did I apologize.
OUCH --- dad got owned !!!
Please go back and read you post. You didn't have to be so, shall we say, ill tempered. There's no reason to stop acting like a lady...
When I challenged your statement, I hope I didn't come of that way; if I did I apologize.
Brad
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From: Ulster County, NY
Originally posted by bradrs
No need to apologize. I was just giving your dad a hard time because he gave ItsStockOfficer a hard time. Sow what you reap, pops! It was all in jest, I'm glad you picked up what I was talking about.
Brad
No need to apologize. I was just giving your dad a hard time because he gave ItsStockOfficer a hard time. Sow what you reap, pops! It was all in jest, I'm glad you picked up what I was talking about.
Brad
I guess one should make sure their right before they start to strut....
Mike's dad
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Originally posted by SidewaysEvo
don't talk ish about things u don't have.
don't talk ish about things u don't have.
should I defer to you on that as well?
Originally posted by SidewaysEvo
I have the hks exhaust and I love it. and I am sure u ask anybody that has it they love it too. I have the hks suction kit and it is pretty good too. so don't knock it until u tried it and don't hate. and obviously u don't know anything about the industry. and the fcd was made for one thing to prevent fuel cut. if u don't like it don't buy it. hks wouldn't still be in business if they sold crap
I have the hks exhaust and I love it. and I am sure u ask anybody that has it they love it too. I have the hks suction kit and it is pretty good too. so don't knock it until u tried it and don't hate. and obviously u don't know anything about the industry. and the fcd was made for one thing to prevent fuel cut. if u don't like it don't buy it. hks wouldn't still be in business if they sold crap
Brad
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I think grounding kits are a waste of time in many applications. The thing that peaked my interest was noticing that a friends Evo (with a kit) had a slightly smoother idle. My first step was to go looking for bad or loose connections on my car; when that didn't turn anything up I hunted around for an install sheet from a factory kit and build my own.
I still don't get where you are going with "dual coils = plugs don't ground" thing. When you screw a plug into a cylinder head it the outside electrodes are part of the casing that touches the head. Once the current hits those electrodes it's grounded; period.
The path would be something like: Grounded side of plug, head, head bolt (or head gasket), engine block, engine block ground cable (your car has one - go look), neg battery post. The rest of the circut is made up by the side that fires the spark plug.
As for the difference in my car - I've been using a G-Tech Pro Comp for measuring changes. The G-Tech does an OK job, not perfect, but inexpensive and the nearest AWD dyno is 10 hours away. Not a tuning tool, but good for verifying what your latest mods have done.
I still don't get where you are going with "dual coils = plugs don't ground" thing. When you screw a plug into a cylinder head it the outside electrodes are part of the casing that touches the head. Once the current hits those electrodes it's grounded; period.
The path would be something like: Grounded side of plug, head, head bolt (or head gasket), engine block, engine block ground cable (your car has one - go look), neg battery post. The rest of the circut is made up by the side that fires the spark plug.
As for the difference in my car - I've been using a G-Tech Pro Comp for measuring changes. The G-Tech does an OK job, not perfect, but inexpensive and the nearest AWD dyno is 10 hours away. Not a tuning tool, but good for verifying what your latest mods have done.
Last edited by erioshi; Jan 9, 2004 at 03:41 PM.
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Originally posted by erioshi
I still don't get where you are going with "dual coils = plugs don't ground" thing. When you screw a plug into a cylinder head it the outside electrodes are part of the casing that touches the head. Once the current hits those electrodes it's grounded; period.
The path would be something like: Grounded side of plug, head, head bolt (or head gasket), engine block, engine block ground cable (your car has one - go look), neg battery post. The rest of the circut is made up by the side that fires the spark plug.
I still don't get where you are going with "dual coils = plugs don't ground" thing. When you screw a plug into a cylinder head it the outside electrodes are part of the casing that touches the head. Once the current hits those electrodes it's grounded; period.
The path would be something like: Grounded side of plug, head, head bolt (or head gasket), engine block, engine block ground cable (your car has one - go look), neg battery post. The rest of the circut is made up by the side that fires the spark plug.
Brad