Why a turbo timer is NOT useless
Dec 13, 2011, 07:41 PM
#32
I have been questioning the necessity for one the last few weeks. I had a shop install an oil temp gauge that required them to remove the timer. After 8 years of having cars with timers I was a little cautious at first and sat there letting it idle for a period similar to what I remember the timer doing when installed. Well I got so bored I would stare at my oil temp gauge. It never went down the whole time. I'm sure if it were 270* after road racing it would drop down slowly, but even some hard highway pulls and autocross, it's always been at about 180*, and thats with the oil cooler duct uninstalled. Its possible the temperatures in the turbo bearings may be dropping, but the oil temp stayed constant. This makes me wonder how necessary they really are. If you run it hard, just leave it for a minute or two. After a REALLy hard hot session of tracking, I would be more concerned about checking tire temps etc. and its not big deal to just let it idle for a few minutes. I'm not even sure if I'm going to reinstall it.
But yeah, they sure are handy for warming the car up!
But yeah, they sure are handy for warming the car up!
Last edited by hokiruu; Dec 13, 2011 at 07:48 PM.
Dec 13, 2011, 07:49 PM
#33
i'll check the temp of the turbo hot side with temp gun next time i'm at the track, at one minute interval with the car idling when i pull into pit. oil temp might not change much but the heat in in the cast iron manifold and hotside takes time to dissipate heat.
Last edited by honda-guy; Dec 13, 2011 at 07:51 PM.
Dec 13, 2011, 07:51 PM
#34
I have been questioning the necessity for one the last few weeks. I had a shop install an oil temp gauge that required them to remove the timer. After 8 years of having cars with timers I was a little cautious at first and sat there letting it idle for a period similar to what I remember the timer doing when installed. Well I got so bored I would stare at my oil temp gauge. It never went down the whole time. I'm sure if it were 270* after road racing it would drop down slowly, but even some hard highway pulls and autocross, it's always been at about 180*, and thats with the oil cooler duct uninstalled. Its possible the temperatures in the turbo bearings may be dropping, but the oil temp stayed constant. This makes me wonder how necessary they really are. If you run it hard, just leave it for a minute or two. After a REALLy hard hot session of tracking, I would be more concerned about checking tire temps etc. and its not big deal to just let it idle for a few minutes. I'm not even sure if I'm going to reinstall it.
But yeah, they sure are handy for warming the car up!
But yeah, they sure are handy for warming the car up!
That would be great!
Dec 13, 2011, 08:29 PM
#39
Water cooled turbo = no need for turbo timer.
Non water cooled turbo = if your paranoid, super lazy, always in a hurry to go every where, then maybe use of a turbo timer.
In the end its all a gimic for you to look cool and for companies to make money. Did you also know that any novice can simply make there own turbo timer at radio shack for under $10. And you paid how much? Too cute.
Just an opinion...
But If you think about it, turbo timers cause more damage and cost you more money then they save. Firstly, think about how many dashes, gauge clusters, and center consoles that have been damaged by drilling, glueing, and rubbing. Next consider all the gas you waisted adding 30sec - 3min of run time to every trip (yearly that's Gota cost a couple hundred bucks of 93 or even worse, race fuel. And while your lossing gas you can add in oil consumption, and that extra wear n tear. Now compare that to the number of people who have jumpes in there car the next day and noticed the completly random issue of a locked up turbo due to excessive heat and warping of the turbo cartridge. A quick search will give you a rough count of zero of these instances with the EVO and similar results in other cars.
Non water cooled turbo = if your paranoid, super lazy, always in a hurry to go every where, then maybe use of a turbo timer.
In the end its all a gimic for you to look cool and for companies to make money. Did you also know that any novice can simply make there own turbo timer at radio shack for under $10. And you paid how much? Too cute.
Just an opinion...
But If you think about it, turbo timers cause more damage and cost you more money then they save. Firstly, think about how many dashes, gauge clusters, and center consoles that have been damaged by drilling, glueing, and rubbing. Next consider all the gas you waisted adding 30sec - 3min of run time to every trip (yearly that's Gota cost a couple hundred bucks of 93 or even worse, race fuel. And while your lossing gas you can add in oil consumption, and that extra wear n tear. Now compare that to the number of people who have jumpes in there car the next day and noticed the completly random issue of a locked up turbo due to excessive heat and warping of the turbo cartridge. A quick search will give you a rough count of zero of these instances with the EVO and similar results in other cars.
Dec 13, 2011, 08:42 PM
#40
Evolving Member
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DB I agree and I think we're flogging a dead horse but anyway .
Forget trackwork because that is not norman road car use .
We need to remember that when we switch off we imediately remove the heat source , as well as mechanically pumped oil and coolant .
The coolant doesn't stop circulating through the turbos bearing housing just because the water pump stops . I CBF going through all the thermosiphon business but it does what the manufactures engineers intends it to do .
Now turbochargers have thermal mass as in X amount of iron can store Y amount of heat for Z amount of time . The thermal mass of a turbos bearing housing is not terribly great so it doesn't take much cooling mass to pull the temperature down to an acceptable level . How mutch coolant at the engines running temp would you guess is needed to get the housing and the adjacent turbine housing down to just below boiling point or 100C/212F ?
Take a close look at the size of the OE water tubes and remember its just heat that makes water and or steam bubbles flow through the turbos core after shut down .
Now no manufacturer fits TTs and from a legal and safety perspective thats good news . I don't want to think about walking away from a running car and something like a cooling system failure or worse a fuel leak and fire trash it .
Be a bit like a microwave oven and something overdone - bing - rooted ...
I think its enough to use good coolant/oil/filters regular servicing and a bit of mechanical sympathy .
The real bottom line is if you are too bone lazy to spend a MAXIMUM of three minutes with your car at most then you only have yourself to blame .
Most half smart people don't lairize around in their home district so close to home is good for warm up and ease down before parking . At most I'd idle for perhaps one minute and I've never killed a bush or ball bearing turbo yet .
The best turbo timer is the one between your ears possibly assisted by the one on your wrist .
Forget trackwork because that is not norman road car use .
We need to remember that when we switch off we imediately remove the heat source , as well as mechanically pumped oil and coolant .
The coolant doesn't stop circulating through the turbos bearing housing just because the water pump stops . I CBF going through all the thermosiphon business but it does what the manufactures engineers intends it to do .
Now turbochargers have thermal mass as in X amount of iron can store Y amount of heat for Z amount of time . The thermal mass of a turbos bearing housing is not terribly great so it doesn't take much cooling mass to pull the temperature down to an acceptable level . How mutch coolant at the engines running temp would you guess is needed to get the housing and the adjacent turbine housing down to just below boiling point or 100C/212F ?
Take a close look at the size of the OE water tubes and remember its just heat that makes water and or steam bubbles flow through the turbos core after shut down .
Now no manufacturer fits TTs and from a legal and safety perspective thats good news . I don't want to think about walking away from a running car and something like a cooling system failure or worse a fuel leak and fire trash it .
Be a bit like a microwave oven and something overdone - bing - rooted ...
I think its enough to use good coolant/oil/filters regular servicing and a bit of mechanical sympathy .
The real bottom line is if you are too bone lazy to spend a MAXIMUM of three minutes with your car at most then you only have yourself to blame .
Most half smart people don't lairize around in their home district so close to home is good for warm up and ease down before parking . At most I'd idle for perhaps one minute and I've never killed a bush or ball bearing turbo yet .
The best turbo timer is the one between your ears possibly assisted by the one on your wrist .
Dec 13, 2011, 09:28 PM
#41
Evolved Member
I had a turbo timer on my car when I got it so I didn't pay for it or to install it... but regardless of its dubious merits in cooling the turbo after WOT driving, the digital speedo is worth every penny. Why Mitsu put our speedo where they did is totally beyond me, but its almost impossible to see until nearly 100 mph.
Dec 13, 2011, 09:41 PM
#42
^ Lancer Speedo is dead center for easy viewing. The EVO Speedo was moved to the left so that the more important tach could be seen at the center.
Back to the topic:
I can see the music video now...
I be turbo timing at the gas station... cause race car. I be turbo timing it at the mall... Cause race car. I be turbo timing at Wal-Mart... cause race car. Got rice, got rice... cause race car. to be continued...
If you want a turbo timer, get a turbo timer. Just don't be fooled into getting one by manufactured fear tactics.
Back to the topic:
I can see the music video now...
I be turbo timing at the gas station... cause race car. I be turbo timing it at the mall... Cause race car. I be turbo timing at Wal-Mart... cause race car. Got rice, got rice... cause race car. to be continued...
If you want a turbo timer, get a turbo timer. Just don't be fooled into getting one by manufactured fear tactics.
Last edited by Live4Redline; Dec 13, 2011 at 09:45 PM.
Dec 13, 2011, 10:10 PM
#43
As for using it to warm up your car, now that's something I'm willing to get a TT for.
Dec 13, 2011, 11:48 PM
#44
Evolved Member
In 1992 I bought a turbo DSM. Now these cars had a pitifully weak starter so a few winters I ran synthetic just for starting, but most of the miles that were accumulated were on dino dregs, no turbo timer, and the car was never idled once for cool down. That car got traded with way over 100K, the original turbo and no problems.