Did some talking to people and those % numbers (oxidation, sulfation and nitration) are based on whatever baselines they have at CAT Labs. One guy had high oxi levels and it turned out that CAT compared the M-1 to Mobil conventional.

So that said, you're pretty good. Moly is high showing that your extreme pressure situations come few and far between. If you'd like, i can try to dig up a virgin analysis of M-1 10w-30 to compare yours to.

ferb!

 

I use a lot of assumptions in this, but no; this amount of silicon couldn't have come solely from the pistons.

Now my work (i'm an engineer, we show that stuff):

--Even at hypereutectic, as in a 4032 forged piston, the silicon composition is around 11-15%-- stock Mitsu pistons are around 7%. So for every 8 parts of aluminum we see around 1 part of silicon.

--In this analysis, we see 4 parts of aluminum, so the amount of silicon released is negligable.

Thats just my take, if anyone wants to look at it another way, i'd love to compare notes.

ferb!

 

you know Ferb, thats an idea. If you can not manage it, i will do it on the next change. I was thinking 2000 miles instead of 2500. The magic number may be lower than mitsu advises!!!

 

But i can't imagine that number being THIS much lower. And for a modern engine, 2k miles is nothing.

Is it possible for you to do a static compression test and leakdown to get rid of the option of blowby? Thats really the only huge issue i have with your report.

ferb!

 

I have my oil sample kit ready to go. I've had it for some time now. Just waiting for the Evo to hit 3000 miles. It's not a daily driver so this could be by the end of winter. It's currently running M1 10w30. But I've put the M1 15w50 (or was it 20w50) whatever they sell in the USA for track days. I wrote a thread about it in the past that I used it because of the very high oil temps achieved during hard running. Temps that 10w30 M1 would break down in.
When my Evo is driven it's driven pretty hard so we'll see when I get my results. I'm using Blackstone Labs.

 

Yes, I was looking at Tri-Syn, but even Supersyn's Noack volity is 13%. This data is from the latest manufacturers data and is up to date as of June '03. There may be an update since then. I doubt it though.

Which AMSOIL type are you referring to? There's a lot of oils from the same manufactuer in each oil grade. To give you an idea of the breadth of the report, there are about 200 oils in the 10/30 grade.
The report has four different types of AMSOIL in the 10/30 grade.

Sean

 

I did a little searching to find out what the "typical" Evo track-day temp is. Seems it's a little high at 250-260F (120-130C). Likewise, pressures seem to be 20psi at idle to 100psi at full kick, those quoted as M1 10w-30.

To me, the higher temps aren't too horrible an issue when using an ACEA A3/B3 lube. This will likely put you in the xw-40 range, save for the German Castrol of 0w-30 vintage.

Going to a full 50wt will do a few things. It will increase the film strength, but at a cost-- the pressures will try to rise and continue to hit the oil bypass. This means you're wasting HP pumping oil that isn't getting circulated. If the oil wasn't able to get to full pressure when hot, i would agree a heftier lube is in order.

If one goes with a thermally stable oil, polyolesters, the oxidation should go down and the film will be kept. Add in a quality extreme pressure additive and you're set. And if this sounds like a push towards Redline, Motul, Synergyn, you're right.

ferb!

 

Ferb, you seem to know your stuff on the engine oil front. What is the recommended oil for the guy who runs the hell out of the car, and, spends time in rush hour traffic. What worries me is I've seem Evos running as high as 280 degrees F.

 

No problem at all running 280F (140C) with a polyol ester lube. Jet engine sumps run upwards of this and can sped time around 200C. Not a place for the weak of lubed.

Also, Redline shows that their polyol ester stocks allow the oil to pass the Sequence IIIE (ASTM D5533) viscosity increase test with flying colours. This test runs the oil in a 3.8L Buick at 3500rpm with 145C sump temps for 64 hours. The IIIE spec says 375%, most lubes are around 150%, but Redline claims to be at 15%.

It's this Seq. IIIE specification, a requirement for API-SH (and later) and ILSAC GF-3 (and later) that shows an oil can take punishment with regard to oxidation.

Hope that makes sense. Before yesterday i didn't realize that Evo sumps got so damn hot. I'm definately leaning towards polyol based lubes for people that autocross/track the car.

ferb!

 

Thanks for the info Ferb. What about ACEA specs? I was under the impression it was important to meet the A3 specs. Especially becaue of the HTHS situations. I know M1 15-50 was the only M1 oil to meet this standard. What about Redline? They list the API specs, but not the ACEA. Redline doesn't list HTHS Viscosity at all on their products which concerns me. Seems like it would be something to brag about. Thoughts?

 

ACEA A3/B3 is just a little added statistics on the oil. The reason i look towards it, it requires a >3.5 mPa HT/HS number. This alone is why very few 30wts can touch it. German Castrol Syntec (which is Formula SLX over there). For the most part they're synthetic 40wts; M1 0w-40 is included.

As far as Redline, that is one of my peeves with them. They have a superior basestock yet don't flaunt the good numbers. Regardless, they have a good HTHS number-- even according to Amsoil (who always want to make Series 2000 look great).

http://www.bimmerforums.com/AmsoilStudybyBobM3.php

According to this (and i'm trying to locate actual Redline PDFs too) the xw-30 are around 3.6 mPa and the 10w-40 is a GREAT 4.7 mPa. If you look down the list, Redline is always at the top in each grade.

I hope i don't come across as a Redline pusher-- i just feel that in a very hot and very tightly wound turbo like the Evo, go with a much superior base stock.

ferb!

 

Freedom of information:

http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads...0ALL%20002.pdf

Redline Australia's spec sheet has HT/HS numbers.. Why the US one doesn't, who knows.

ferb!

 

OK, those numbers look real good. Is the base stock used in Australia slightly different than what is used in the US? Notice how the numbers are a little different when compared to:
http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/mopds.pdf
But at least the HTHS test was included. Isn't it a score of 3 or higher on the HTHS in order to be A3 spec'd?

BTW, have you ever checked out Valvoline's Durablen 10w-40? For not being a full syn it has some nice specs. It has A3 specs and other viscosity look equivalent to REdline. (I'm a Valvoline synpower fan on the side I like the detergents for my older vehicles)

 

All of Redline's oil is blended in the Benecia, CA plant. And the numbers, althugh different, aren't significantly different. Not sure why they are different at all, however. Perhaps one datasheet is more recent and that batch was different.

The more i talk about Redline, the more i'm probably going to start using it in my own car. Since i don't have quite the oil temp problems of the Evo, I've been satisfied with the 3.6 mPa HTHS German Syntec. But it's primarily PAO-- same as Mobil 1, but a little thicker which makes my pushrod V6 happy.

Near my parents house there is a new import-tuner warehouse place run by Japan's largest autoparts chain. Anyway, they have not only Redline and Amsoil, but some Euro boutique lubes, Motul and an Elf, along with OEM lubes.

Plus, one has never seen expensive until they've seen the Trust F2 0w-40 for $25/L. The OEM Toyota and Honda stuff is kinda pricey too coming in around $50/4L.

Anyway.. yeah. i'm an oil freak.

ferb!

 

ferb,
quick question... so for the driver who drives fairly hard and goes to the strip/track a couple times a month would you recommend the redline 10w30 or the 10w40???

-non