i just bought gsc s2 cams for my evo8 to replace my hks 272. motor will be stock with all the bolt ons running a hta gt3582r

which gsc valve springs should i get? The $200 ones which run the stock retainers or the $400 ones with the titanium retainers?

are there going to be any benifits in runing the more expensive set of springs and retainers?

 

I don't think it really matters. The 400 dollar ones are the same unless they are dual, the only difference is your paying for the ti retainers. The ti retainers will be lighter and more durable but honestly either one should be fine.

 

I would get neither and just get Kiggleys. $400. With a more aggressive lift, I would definitely invest in Kiggleys. The only reason I am running cheap ones (Brian Crowers) now is because I have the mild lift HKS 272s. Spin my engine up to 8600rpm with no issues yet.

If you are going to invest $400 in a set of springs anyway, just go with the best (Kiggley).

 

I run the gsc springs and retainers in my car there not bad.

 

Oh I am not saying the ones you run are bad or won't work (especially for his application), but am just saying if you are going to drop that much money, you might as well get the best. Again, don't take this as you made the wrong decision on your setup or whatever as I bought cheapo Bryan Crowers and they run fine for my application as well. I am saying if I had to buy springs to run a more aggressive lift cam like that at 8500+rpms, I would go with Kiggley.

For the small turbo he is running, I am not sure he would even make use of that kind of RPM anyway, so I would probably just suggest he sticks with the cheaper solution ($200).

 

No not taken at all I agree that the Kiggly would be better, but I just answered the question he asked

 

Yea I guess in the end we came up with the same answer, assuming he isn't running ultra high rpms (8500+). The only thing I would say is that I believe the stock retainers are actually lighter than aftermarket titanium ones, however, the titanium ones are stronger. If you take a titanium one and a stock one and compare in your hand, you will notice the slight difference. The guy that tuned my car pointed this out to me and I thought it was interesting as you always think of titanium as being the lightest.

 

yeah there is a lot more mass in the aftermarket retainers. I broke 3 of mine takeing them out hahaha oops.

 

All these opinions in here and no facts or data.
I like to run parts that are meant to work together. Since I have GSC S2 cams in my IX, I called Greg directly and asked him what supporting valve train components I should run with his camshafts and why. He didn't make any attempts to sell me products when I called, he asked me what I do with my car and what my power levels are. This made it easy to see what I needed. Throwing parts on your car because some anonymous yahoo on an internet forum says one particular part is better than another is not necessarily the best or smartest way to go. Talk to people that make and race these cars if you want to be safe.

OP:

TLDR: The benefit to price is very small, your money might be better spent somewhere else (seat time, maybe) if cost is a concern.

Titanium is lighter and has less density than steel. The benefit is that titanium has less mass than steel, which means that's less weight your valve train has to move.

Weight is your valve train's #1 enemy.

A side effect of this reduction in mass includes; slightly increased valve train lifespan over steel (you probably won't even notice), increased valve train stability at higher RPMs, engine redline is increased slightly (the lighter weight reduces your chances of floating a valve by a nominal percentile or a few hundred RPMs) and probably others I'm forgetting.

Consider it a little bit of insurance. There is a saying that I picked from my Safety Education teacher in high school back in 1992 that I believe in, "Pay me now or pay me later." Which means you can go cheap on it up front, but when something breaks/goes wrong you'll just be paying that money (or more) later anyway. Sure, retainers are probably not going to blow your motor, but the theory applies to most things automotive on a larger scale.

If the cost is an issue, just stick with steel. If you want that little be of added insurance and can afford the up front costs I say go for it.

 

I didn't go into springs in my above post, but you will also need to consider what your goals of the motor actually are before you make a purchase.

Typically, stiffer valve springs reduce valve float, which allows you to push the motor to higher RPMs. If you do not have your motor set-up for this, you could potentially be increasing wear on your valve train (due to the increased stiffness of the springs) and you'll now have a part in your car that's not really doing anything for you other than just giving you a little bit of added insurance in case you accidentally rev the motor to extremely high RPMs.

 

There shouldn't really have to have any type of data. I mean realistically, any upgraded spring and retainer will work just fine. I mean I like GSC stuff why I bought it. Fact of the matter is if its a GSC or Kiggly, BC, or any other spring and retainer, the fact is still the same. What would be the difference if you ran a racing spring in a car you daily commute in? If they will withstand the abuse of being reved to 10 12k then why would it matter if your only going to say 5 or 6k? What it boils down to is everyone is gonna have a different opinion.

 

Yes you responded a second time before I was done hahaha. I completely agree with what you said here.

 

I wasn't speaking out of my ***. The fact of the matter is that Kiggleys are the best for high rpm and high lift application. They would increase wear and if you are not needing rpms above 8500-9000, I would probably stick with something cheaper and easier on the valve train wear. I am not sure why you were comparing steel to titanium as the stock ones are aluminum and the aftermarket ones are titanium (the two options he was considering). My statement stands that stock are lighter but weaker than aftermarket titanium. Not sure what I said that was inaccurate.

The only thing I could see arguable is the point at which Kiggleys would be needed (lift on cams and rpm). Obviously nobody has done extensive enough research to know this exact point, but you try to be a bit conservative to avoid problems.

 

In short, OP, do some research first.

I'm talking about one set of springs versus another.

Agreed, they would be wasted.

Not calling you out, but show me where I can read this since I'm always trying to learn.

You are correct, this was my mistake.

 

I should have said they are the best for high lift/rpm applications and I don't believe his application will fit the bill. I based this on all the high hp builds I have read in to using them. Also a local Talon that had 1000hp and ran high 8s used them as well. If all the cars running high rpm/lift cams are using them, then I conclude they are probably the best for that application.

There is some trade off in the form of being more parasitic on the engine and increasing wear. I would say if he is keeping the rpms under 9000, then he would probably be best served by the behives that use the stock retainers or perhaps just get a set of cheap Bryan Crowers like I use. I think they are like $242 as well and come with titanium retainers. The $400 GSC springs will obviously work fine too, but at a higher price with little to no benefit over the other options for his application.

Basically, you have to gauge what rpm you are operating at and how aggressive your cam lift is and make a decision as to what spring to get. The stiffer the spring, the more cam lift and rpm it can take, but the more drag and engine wear it will produce.

Another case study would be the same local guy that had the 1000hp talon also had a 750whp evo that ran 9.8s and used stock retainers and springs and ran his car out to 8500rpm and occasionally even 9000rpm. I believe he was using the same cams (GSCs).