Buschur Racing turbo kits & dyno numbers
We can solve a lot of problems with NON-BELIEVERS if:
David Buschur lends out a turbo kit to.. maybe AL
I meet up with Al at Pruven..
We try out the kit in my Evo
Al Flashes it on Pruven's AWD dyno (so some of YOU can shut up)
Than ALL the resolts will be posted for ALL to see...
Well this is just a suggestion... but I WILL have my car used for this test if allowed....
I still dont know how people doubt both Buschur and Al eventhough they have SHOWN REAL WORLD RESULTS....
EXAMPLES:
Bushur-2wd dyno(so what) but real world result= 11.6@117mph
AL-DynoFlash---FULLY STOCK EVO with just DynoFlash 12.8@106mph.......
Now those are great results no matter how you think of it.... There are many more great results out there but I just dont want to type anymore since i just got home......
Ive been buying Buschur products for a while now and was also the 1st car Al had DynoFlashed and had no problems since...well the truth is the only problem i have is with Buschur's highflow cat...thats it though... its nothing big and nothing major... its just the heat sheild vibrating b/c it is getting loose i think....well besides that IN my opinion i chose a GREAT setup for MY EVO....
Dont get me wrong.. I know there are other tuners out there that are either good or might even be better but this is what I chose and I KNOW it was a good one.....
David Buschur lends out a turbo kit to.. maybe AL
I meet up with Al at Pruven..
We try out the kit in my Evo
Al Flashes it on Pruven's AWD dyno (so some of YOU can shut up)
Than ALL the resolts will be posted for ALL to see...
Well this is just a suggestion... but I WILL have my car used for this test if allowed....
I still dont know how people doubt both Buschur and Al eventhough they have SHOWN REAL WORLD RESULTS....
EXAMPLES:
Bushur-2wd dyno(so what) but real world result= 11.6@117mph
AL-DynoFlash---FULLY STOCK EVO with just DynoFlash 12.8@106mph.......
Now those are great results no matter how you think of it.... There are many more great results out there but I just dont want to type anymore since i just got home......
Ive been buying Buschur products for a while now and was also the 1st car Al had DynoFlashed and had no problems since...well the truth is the only problem i have is with Buschur's highflow cat...thats it though... its nothing big and nothing major... its just the heat sheild vibrating b/c it is getting loose i think....well besides that IN my opinion i chose a GREAT setup for MY EVO....
Dont get me wrong.. I know there are other tuners out there that are either good or might even be better but this is what I chose and I KNOW it was a good one.....
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 101
From: NR Reading PA
One additional point that might be considered is that Buschur's 11.65 is one of the fastest AWD times in the US with a Big 16g.
Check out the AWD and Quickest turbo times:
http://www.dsmtimes.org/
My point is that the dyno arguments are masking the true and spectacular performance gains of the Buschur EVO on the stock turbo.
Speedlimit...
Check out the AWD and Quickest turbo times:
http://www.dsmtimes.org/
My point is that the dyno arguments are masking the true and spectacular performance gains of the Buschur EVO on the stock turbo.
Speedlimit...
Originally posted by robi
Blue Evo 8, I'd drive from calif. (the land of pisstane) but with Buschur's stuff you don't need to! I'm at a flashed stage 4 and the only thing I paid to have installed was the cams (which got messed up, and I had to show them how to retime it right, but noticed before any damage was done)...All in the driveway on blocks (and because I'm old and Fat they're pretty big blocks) I did have a small hick up with the exhaust but only cause I didn't read all the directions. If I had, the 3x re-adjustments to avoid rattle/vibration would have never occured. I've had 3 exhausts on this car and the BR is by far the best fitting (defined as highest/best ground clearance) dragged both of the previous exhausts... with the BR I'll drag aloy of other things first.
Blue Evo 8, I'd drive from calif. (the land of pisstane) but with Buschur's stuff you don't need to! I'm at a flashed stage 4 and the only thing I paid to have installed was the cams (which got messed up, and I had to show them how to retime it right, but noticed before any damage was done)...All in the driveway on blocks (and because I'm old and Fat they're pretty big blocks) I did have a small hick up with the exhaust but only cause I didn't read all the directions. If I had, the 3x re-adjustments to avoid rattle/vibration would have never occured. I've had 3 exhausts on this car and the BR is by far the best fitting (defined as highest/best ground clearance) dragged both of the previous exhausts... with the BR I'll drag aloy of other things first.
yeah maybe I wont have to drive to wakeman ohio to see buschur, maybe I can do a lot of these mods myself and save me some $$$
I have finnally finished reading all the threads on this subject up to page 7 anyway and it appears to me that what most people are missing is that the Buschur Stages including this new turbo made and designed for quality and realibility. The are made to keep the car as every day drivable as possible and with street driving in mind. I have no intensions on dragging my EVO. However running a road cource here and there would be a blast and that is exactly what I see Buschur designing their stages for. All the while maintaining drivability, duribility, and realibility as an every day car.
Dave, Keep up the good work.
I plan to have Stage 3 with the dynoflash installed in Wakeman as soon as Dave can schedule it and if that goes well which I am sure it will I plan to be back for the Turbo.
Dave, Keep up the good work.
I plan to have Stage 3 with the dynoflash installed in Wakeman as soon as Dave can schedule it and if that goes well which I am sure it will I plan to be back for the Turbo.
Originally posted by Blue Evo 8
yeah maybe I wont have to drive to wakeman ohio to see buschur, maybe I can do a lot of these mods myself and save me some $$$
yeah maybe I wont have to drive to wakeman ohio to see buschur, maybe I can do a lot of these mods myself and save me some $$$
The people who dont "get it" about this new turbo set up will be "getting it" in a few weeks after they start seeing how well these cars will run on the street.
People in the know will be able to tell by looking at that dyno sheet that the BR 475 is a great set up
Al,
The turbo kit is going to come with a choice of turbos actually. The BR475 was developed for the early 4g63's in the DSM's to cut the cost to the customers. The 20g over the years has become a $1350 turbo the way we build it. Kick *** turbo but the expense is rediculous. It also required $750 worth of external wastegate to be made to work correctly. The BR475 provides better power, better spool up and does it for $1295 LESS! The BR475 we sell by itself for $995. The turbo kit can also be ordered with the BR500 and BR580. These turbos are also $995, the price stays the same with the kit. The installation is also the same.
BlueEVO,
We'll be waiting for you !!
Superz,
As I said above, the BR500 and BR580 will be no additional cost.
RnR,
I think, but didn't go back and look, that in the first post that I listed what we had done to the car. Maybe not, here it is again.
What's NOT changed:
The ENGINE, HEAD, INTAKE, THROTTLE BODY, FUEL LINES, FUEL RAIL, FUEL REGULATOR are all BONE stock. NEVER touched. ALL stock fasteners still in the engine. NO rod bolt or head bolt changes, no re-torques.
What is changed:
Our complete Buschur Racing Stage 4 package.
The dyno tests we have done so far are on 94 octane fuel, STRAIGHT, no race gas at ALL.
We are using the AEM EMS on the car.
We also have the coil on plug ignition on the car.
Before it is even asked. The coil on plug at 390 hp/390 ft lbs on the stock turbo and race gas being maxed out did not gain any whp. The EVO has the worste problem I have ever seen getting a clean tach pick up for the dyno to read. With the coil on plug it gives a perfectly clean pick up each and every run.
Joeycoates,
The limit on the BR475 on pump gas is pretty close to the 401 whp we made. Probably could have pushed the car a little harder but at the chance of possibly hurting it, not ready for that yet!
As for sticking with the stock turbo. I don't know if I would make that choice for MY personal car. This turbo is wicked fast on spool up, so much so as you can see in the dyno charts there is no difference seen. Not to mention how flat the torque curve gets with it. Then you have to look at the additional 65 whp that we gained on the same fuel. (With the AEM tuning too)
This is a turbo that can give you a real mid-11 second pump gas EVO with great spool up.
I truly believe this is going to prove to be the largest selling turbo kit we end up offering for the EVO.
Also, no offense to Works as I know nothing about them. I would have loved to tested those springs you bought. I am sure they are better than stock because the stock ones suck. I am just what the results of the testing would have showed. There are quite a few spring sets for the 1G/2G 4g63 DSM's that test the same or not better than the stock springs. (in the dsm's)
We have a kick *** spring and retainer set for the EVO already. Actually it is the best stuff we have come across.
Look elsewhere on the forums for the initial head testing we just finished up in the next day or so.
BTW, the shop phones were turned off today (Friday) because we are remodeling the shop.
We will be back up and running first thing Monday morning. Sorry for any trouble it may have caused.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The turbo kit is going to come with a choice of turbos actually. The BR475 was developed for the early 4g63's in the DSM's to cut the cost to the customers. The 20g over the years has become a $1350 turbo the way we build it. Kick *** turbo but the expense is rediculous. It also required $750 worth of external wastegate to be made to work correctly. The BR475 provides better power, better spool up and does it for $1295 LESS! The BR475 we sell by itself for $995. The turbo kit can also be ordered with the BR500 and BR580. These turbos are also $995, the price stays the same with the kit. The installation is also the same.
BlueEVO,
We'll be waiting for you !!
Superz,
As I said above, the BR500 and BR580 will be no additional cost.
RnR,
I think, but didn't go back and look, that in the first post that I listed what we had done to the car. Maybe not, here it is again.
What's NOT changed:
The ENGINE, HEAD, INTAKE, THROTTLE BODY, FUEL LINES, FUEL RAIL, FUEL REGULATOR are all BONE stock. NEVER touched. ALL stock fasteners still in the engine. NO rod bolt or head bolt changes, no re-torques.
What is changed:
Our complete Buschur Racing Stage 4 package.
The dyno tests we have done so far are on 94 octane fuel, STRAIGHT, no race gas at ALL.
We are using the AEM EMS on the car.
We also have the coil on plug ignition on the car.
Before it is even asked. The coil on plug at 390 hp/390 ft lbs on the stock turbo and race gas being maxed out did not gain any whp. The EVO has the worste problem I have ever seen getting a clean tach pick up for the dyno to read. With the coil on plug it gives a perfectly clean pick up each and every run.
Joeycoates,
The limit on the BR475 on pump gas is pretty close to the 401 whp we made. Probably could have pushed the car a little harder but at the chance of possibly hurting it, not ready for that yet!
As for sticking with the stock turbo. I don't know if I would make that choice for MY personal car. This turbo is wicked fast on spool up, so much so as you can see in the dyno charts there is no difference seen. Not to mention how flat the torque curve gets with it. Then you have to look at the additional 65 whp that we gained on the same fuel. (With the AEM tuning too)
This is a turbo that can give you a real mid-11 second pump gas EVO with great spool up.
I truly believe this is going to prove to be the largest selling turbo kit we end up offering for the EVO.
Also, no offense to Works as I know nothing about them. I would have loved to tested those springs you bought. I am sure they are better than stock because the stock ones suck. I am just what the results of the testing would have showed. There are quite a few spring sets for the 1G/2G 4g63 DSM's that test the same or not better than the stock springs. (in the dsm's)
We have a kick *** spring and retainer set for the EVO already. Actually it is the best stuff we have come across.
Look elsewhere on the forums for the initial head testing we just finished up in the next day or so.
BTW, the shop phones were turned off today (Friday) because we are remodeling the shop.
We will be back up and running first thing Monday morning. Sorry for any trouble it may have caused.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The way I look at it - my 3037S turbo set up spools up almost 800 rpms slower than the stock set up and can make 418 whp on pump gas with ALL the goodies I have - e.g. bigger valves, higher compresion ratio, etc etc etc
Seeing Buschur make 400 whp with a turbo that spools up the SAME as the stock turbo while making almost as much power - IF NOT the same hp as the 3037 which is twice the $$ - to me thats a great combination
finally - after being gassed by my tubular manifold cracking and creating a massive exhuast leak; the benefits of a cast manifold are very appealing to me as I like to drive my evo as a daily driving car. IMHO a tubual manifold is just not practical on cars which get a lot of miles
Seeing Buschur make 400 whp with a turbo that spools up the SAME as the stock turbo while making almost as much power - IF NOT the same hp as the 3037 which is twice the $$ - to me thats a great combination
finally - after being gassed by my tubular manifold cracking and creating a massive exhuast leak; the benefits of a cast manifold are very appealing to me as I like to drive my evo as a daily driving car. IMHO a tubual manifold is just not practical on cars which get a lot of miles
Originally posted by Alfriedesq
The way I look at it - my 3037S turbo set up spools up almost 800 rpms slower than the stock set up and can make 418 whp on pump gas with ALL the goodies I have - e.g. bigger valves, higher compresion ratio, etc etc etc
Seeing Buschur make 400 whp with a turbo that spools up the SAME as the stock turbo while making almost as much power - IF NOT the same hp as the 3037 which is twice the $$ - to me thats a great combination
finally - after being gassed by my tubular manifold cracking and creating a massive exhuast leak; the benefits of a cast manifold are very appealing to me as I like to drive my evo as a daily driving car. IMHO a tubual manifold is just not practical on cars which get a lot of miles
The way I look at it - my 3037S turbo set up spools up almost 800 rpms slower than the stock set up and can make 418 whp on pump gas with ALL the goodies I have - e.g. bigger valves, higher compresion ratio, etc etc etc
Seeing Buschur make 400 whp with a turbo that spools up the SAME as the stock turbo while making almost as much power - IF NOT the same hp as the 3037 which is twice the $$ - to me thats a great combination
finally - after being gassed by my tubular manifold cracking and creating a massive exhuast leak; the benefits of a cast manifold are very appealing to me as I like to drive my evo as a daily driving car. IMHO a tubual manifold is just not practical on cars which get a lot of miles
Originally posted by MP5
For the sake of clarity Al would you do the right thing...
For the sake of clarity Al would you do the right thing...
Haven't we seen that Buschurs numbers from his 2WD dyno are backed up with performance that verifies that the whp #'s are within a few percentage points of some AWD dyno numbers. Remember, with ~390whp measured on the BR 2WD dyno, Tym drove the car to an 11.65@118. These numbers are not far from the numbers Al's car made with the setup he is comparing to the BR475. Tym may be a better driver, but they are in the same ballpark of power. Truthfully, with the vast swings in dyno numbers between all the different AWD dynos, I really don't think the 2WD vs. AWD argument matters. I, for one, would never try to compare the dyno numbers from a car dyno'ed at MZM to one dyno'ed at, say, Turbochargers.com.
The gains are the thing to watch, remember? Hasn't that been mentioned several times in this thread?
D
In Timeout
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Originally posted by RnR Racing
think I remember you saying something about building one over the winter.
think I remember you saying something about building one over the winter.
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 101
From: NR Reading PA
Originally posted by MP5
For the sake of clarity Al would you do the right thing and state the difference between 400 HP on an AWD dyno and this 400 HP with half the drivetrain working? Are we to assume that you as a tuner make no provisions about these inherent differences? What about all the newbs that are surely to be sucked in by your "minor" purposful neglecting of info?
For the sake of clarity Al would you do the right thing and state the difference between 400 HP on an AWD dyno and this 400 HP with half the drivetrain working? Are we to assume that you as a tuner make no provisions about these inherent differences? What about all the newbs that are surely to be sucked in by your "minor" purposful neglecting of info?
We are tired of these condescending posts and thread hijacks. We know the differences and understand (apparently better than you) how to evaluate performance gains.
Speedlimit...
Last edited by Speedlimit; Jan 31, 2004 at 04:47 PM.