You won't be able to achieve perfection on 2000cc's with the small IPW's you're running, but I promise you they'll be better than the 1450's you bought.

I kind of agree with Jerry on this... staged injection would improve drivability for a HUGE increase in cost and complexity. Not sure I'm down for it, but maybe we'll have an injector option that works.

 

The X's need to be idled in open loop as they are spotty at best...

English loves open loop and it works great for them, also they like to run the car a tad richer at idle due to large cams and colder weather...

On my VIII I did the minimum IPW patch and fiddled with the cranking IPW and they are damn near perfect... idles @ 14.7

On the IXs the minimum IPW is set lower than the VIIIs off the get go, so it is not an issue... Mikey's IX idles great on the 2150s...

Good luck either way, I just couldn't stand the low IPW studder at cruise with the 1450s... on E85 it may no longer be noticeable but on pump is was very annoying, this is why i took them out... also they were a bear to get dialed in...

 

Boom!

http://www.injectordynamics.com/size14.html

YOU'LL ACTUALLY HAVE TO TYPE IN THE S WORD TO GET THIS POPULATE IN YOUR BROWSER
http://www.injectordynamics.com/Bull****Epidemic.html

 

Good links, Eric. I've corresponded with ID before and they seemed like a group that knew what they were talking about.

 

I'm using the FIC Bluemax 1450s without issue. Challenges in tuning my setup include the big Crane cams, mass air, and 75mm Hypertune TB. Nevertheless, I have the engine idling well in closed loop for both gasoline and E85, and with driveability issues, no hesitation, no flat spots. The only bumpy moment I sometimes have is when the AC is activated, but that is more an issue of this TB not having a BISS provision.

I've tinkered with the idea of swapping to a Hi-Z Bosch EV14 type, but I would go with 1100cc units, and reconfigure the fuel system to run higher pressures with sequential pumps in order to realize the greatest potential from these injectors. At this point however, I'm finding it hard to justify spending more to change a system that's working fine as is.

 

^ or that you have to quadruple the pressure to double the flow

 

You are correct. In my case however, increasing the base FP to 70-75psi fulfills the improved atomization potential these injectors offer while providing some 1350cc/min of flow potential with 1100cc units. Many of us don't need 2000cc/min injectors.

 

What's the highest Injector duty cycle are you running your 1100cc units at? On ethanol I'm at 70+ IDC with 2000cc injectors. Take a look at where you're at with regards to IPW and what that does to your injector's linearity. Not to say you can't run injectors static... but I'm personally not a fan.

As ID has tested the 1000cc Bosch EV14's already... if you look at the graph below you may notice there is a limit to how much base pressure you can throw at the 1000cc Bosch injectors.

the ID2000's however will take to the increased pressure like a duck to water. They also have a graph showing if you don't get the injector a clean 12+ volts the injector can have trouble opening at all at those base pressures..... FOR EXAMPLE... when you're cranking and your voltage dips to 8-10 volts. See graphs 2, 3, & 4 for 5, 6, and 7 bar graphs. Notice the 8V isn't shown at higher pressures? Can't open the injector against the pressure.


Read for yourself here!

http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html

 

There are other benefits to higher pressure. There are also more limitations though including starting the car when cold due to voltage levels. (ha, R/T Ernie got it before I refreshed)

Has anybody actually tweaked the low-pulsewidth modification table to actually match the injector data?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, the VIII/IX ECU has a table that is a pulsewidth adder. It is active when requested IPW is below like 2.2ms and has like 40 points on it for that 2.2ms of IPW range. This table allows the injector pulsewidth to be linearized so that when the ECU requests 1.5ms, this table adjusts the IPW so that the real pulsewidth is what would be required to meet that flow requirement. That non-linear hump you see at the low IPW on the ID site is exactly what this table is used for.

Good read by the way on those links. Doesn't suprise me that people are trying to follow what ID is doing without putting in the actual work. I just wish my ID1000??? would hot start. (I question that because I bought 1000s yet my data chart says 87Xcc and now they sell 885s so I'm not sure what they hell they are any more)

 

Ok, but ~75psi base FP equates to a differential of somewhere around 5.0-5.5 bar, which should deliver just enough to satisfy my setup. Increasing the pressure on a set of already huge 2000s however is going in the wrong direction for my needs, and does so at double the cost.

There is a reason I haven't pursued this route, that being the expected result isn't clear enough to me to warrant the trouble and expense at this point. As I've said before, everything runs fine where I am presently. If that 1000-1100cc/min unit were 1200-1300, I'd probably have done it already, but it doesn't exist.



I'm curious as to any real-world observations on that possibility with the EVO platform. If any have been posted, I've missed them.

 

I've seen voltage drop to the 9V range in the summer. I was using a medium sized battery. I would bet a small battery car would definitely drop even further.

How many people are running 75+ psi base fuel pressure? Most people reealize they don't have the pump to keep up. Speaking of, I noticed a while back Bosch actually has a high pressure version of the 044 designed for cars running up to 8 bar (p/n B 261 205 413-01).

 

Haha. Mychailo and I were discussing offline this...
My ID1000's never did hot start properly. Tony did say something about the 1000cc injectors having hot start issues after we had lots of problems on the Ecuflash stuff with the ID1000's. Mychailo and I were 2 of the many people who yelled and screamed something's not right after spending many an hour trying to figure out why.

I've seen more than a few cars drop to 9 volts during while cranking. Mini batteries combined with trunk mounts don't make this any better.

 

Entertaining to see where this thread is going. The higher base pressure discussion is kind of a moot point for our boost levels and the flow rates at high pressure of the in-tank pumps most of us run. R/T, you'd be an exception to this. In-tank pump flow rates go down with higher pressure, and they really go in the crapper much above 85 psi. Lower base pressure with the monster high-Z's seems more sensible, especially if they have the awesome atomization than everyone proclaims. Fuel pump is under less stress, it will flow more because of the lower pressure, and the lower pressure means the min pulse width issue with the monster injectors is somewhat alleviated. Too bad the monster injectors also have a monster price.

 

This is true (and impractical) with typical setups. However, the reason I keep pointing to high pressures is because the virtues of better atomization when operating this type of injector at high differential pressures was repeatedly emphasized by the ID group when they introduced it here. I don't think I would be willing to swap over unless I was prepared to go that route.

 

Roberts HTA green 500whp on pump was setup with 75psi base pressure running the id1000s. which are actually 900cc injectors by FIC standards. walbro 255 intank feeding bosch 044 inline, weldon regulator.

didnt get much attention but he was also running some really lean a/f at WOT. like 12.7/1. Likely possible from the high atomization of the fuel. all droplets burn leaving no fuel leftover to detonate.

boost was 30psi dropping to 27/26 at redline. so 105psi line pressure.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...gas-turbo.html