Help deciding on valve springs

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Nov 28, 2012 | 03:58 PM

snowmastergt

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From: VT

Help deciding on valve springs

Hi EvoM,

I recently bought a set of kelford 272 cams for my evo 8.

I'm now in the processes of looking into weather or not I should upgrade the valve train and what types of valve spring/ retainers I should go with. I've been looking around but I'm just not knowledgeable of whats going to work best for my setup. I'll be running these cams on a stock evo 8 10.5 hot side turbo aiming for roughly 400whp. Some people say theres no need to upgrade and some. If anyone has any input is really appreciate it. Thanks

Nov 28, 2012 | 04:02 PM

k_sheanh91

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From: Colorado Springs

the stock evo retainers are actually lighter than most titanium or aftermarket retainers so if you upgrade anything i would do just the springs. My car is a similar setup to yours and I went with GSC beehives.

Nov 28, 2012 | 04:09 PM

whiteEvo08Y

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From: Windsor, Ontario, Canada

How much RPM you will be running?

Under 7RPM you should be fine on your stock setup. Anything over 7RPM you might want to get a new strings setup. (My opinion)

Go with GSC Power-Division Beehive Spring set with Titanium Retainer. That's what i am buying for my 272 Cams.

Nov 28, 2012 | 04:21 PM

k_sheanh91

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From: Colorado Springs

he said stock turbo, which drops off at 7k anyway. Ive seen multiple cars run 8000 rpm redline with stock retainers and aftermarket springs and not one has failed. And lighter retainers is less work for the motor to do.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-272-cams.html

similar thread from last month.

Nov 28, 2012 | 04:22 PM

snowmastergt

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From: VT

That's what I heard about the rpms it just seems risky though.

Nov 28, 2012 | 04:45 PM

snowmastergt

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From: VT

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_sheanh91

So the gsc beehives work with stock retainers just fine? What can you rev to?

Nov 28, 2012 | 09:46 PM

k_sheanh91

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From: Colorado Springs

I trust it revving to 8000 rpm all day but i have no need to go that high. ive read a lot of posts with people doing just valvesprings and they have great results.

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Nov 28, 2012 | 11:05 PM

GSR ONE

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From: Australia

Kiggly's are probably the best but are a bit of an overkill unless you plan to drag/race.

Nov 28, 2012 | 11:38 PM

10isace

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I went with the MAP beehive springs and stock retainers. I'm on S2's with about the same HP as you. I only DD my car and my rev limit is set at 7600 RPM, so I'm good. I was going to leave it stock, but with my mileage, 120K miles, I decided it was probably due for an upgrade/refresh.

Nov 29, 2012 | 10:19 AM

#10

golgo13

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From: @ a track near you

OP: So, I've already spoken with Kelford about this with their 272 camshafts, actually. Keep in mind that this was for the IX, which is MIVEC so YMMV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgo13

Hello,

I purchased a set of Kelford 272 camshafts for my 4G63 Evo IX street car and wanted to know if I need to upgrade my valve train?
Is it overkill to have dual springs and retainers when running a stock framed turbo?
In your R&D did you find that there is power to be had at the high RPM band?
My car has a stock bottom end, so I don't know how well it can handle high RPMs.

Thank you in advance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelford Cams

golgo13,

The stock spring has very limited valve train control because the cam is aggressive and needs more open pressure to control lofting etc.

People tend to ‘get away with using it’ to a certain extent but with boost and rpm increase combined with the more aggressive cam flank, it is asking for trouble.

We only recommend our beehive spring. NOT a dual spring.

Regards,

Kevin Ban

Managing Director
Kelford Cams & Camshaft Shop

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgo13

Kevin,

Thank you for the reply!

Few more questions:

What is the part number for the beehive springs you recommend? I would like to see the specifications.

Why NOT a dual spring?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelford Cams

The beehive is KVS63-B

I will get the spec to you on Monday when I get back in to the shop.

The dual springs have a lower natural frequency, their own mass working against them.

The beehive chases terminal harmonics further away than a dual ever will.

The KVS63 has 73lb on the seat and 200lb at 11mm lift

In high boost applications we use a 2mm spring seat to lift these figures by 20lb

Regards,

Kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgo13

Which kit do you recommend for the 272 Camshafts?

KVS63-BTK or KVS63-BT?

I can't really tell the difference between the two springs sets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelford Cams

BTK is high pressure for engines over 2bar and over 8000rpm.

BT is for everything under 2 bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgo13

Do you source your springs from GSC or are they developed by Kelford?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelford Cams

Hi, No we don’t source them from GSC but he does ‘kitset’ the same spec parts together to make his.

GSC uses the same spring we do so it is perfectly ok to use his.

So, I also wanted to get to the bottom on the aluminum vs. titanium debate in regards to running them with aftermarket camshafts. You should always ask the manufacturer/vendor of your cams to see what they recommend. I wouldn't apply what GSC says to HKS cams, and so on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by golgo13

I already own your set of titanium retainers for my evo IX, but is there an advantage to going away from the OEM aluminium and putting in the heavier titanium retainers? These are part of the S2 cams and beehive valve springs I purchased as well. If they are not needed, I'll just sell them to someone else.

Thanks,
golgo13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis@GSC

Hey golgo13,

The added weight of the Ti retainer is overshadowed by its durability. Our Beehive spring kit is designed to use them and I suggest installing them for reliability, especially with the added pressures from the S2 cams and beehive springs.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks,
__________________________________

Travis Brodie

GSC Power-Division llc
1816 Belgrade AVE Suite H | Charleston, SC 29407
T:843-852-2727 | F:843-852-3499

Hope this helps!

Nov 29, 2012 | 11:35 AM

#11

Travis@GSC

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From: In your Head

Another thing to ad as far as our GSC kits go, we control the spring pressure with our retainers. Low boost/lower(stock) seat pressure is the GSC5040 Kit, High Boost-High RPM/High Spring Pressure is the GSC5041 kit.
With either retainer you only gain about .6 grams of weight. So it really just makes sense to go ahead and replace them, that way down the road when you want to crank up the boost there wont be an issue.

Nov 30, 2012 | 01:52 PM

#12

BogusSVO

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From: Pensacola,Fla

I like the GSC5041 kit, it is a great set up. Taller springs when compaired to the Kiggley, BeeMad, or Ferrea.

Works great with the Kelford 272, and the other agressive ramps of the big cams.