Buschur Racing ethanol content testing, mind blown.
#33
Newbie
iTrader: (3)
What we need to ask ourselves is what happen when you find a bad gas station which add water or the E85 has more contamination that what the engine/tune can tolerate.
Maybe David could advice what needs to be consider in the tune or other readings from the engine. Base on those metrics, implement maybe a safe-fail mechanism to avoid catastrophic failure in the engine....
If I have a track day, I'll buy E85 directly from a race fuel vendor. this case is when you know that the engine will be put into the test.
Maybe David could advice what needs to be consider in the tune or other readings from the engine. Base on those metrics, implement maybe a safe-fail mechanism to avoid catastrophic failure in the engine....
If I have a track day, I'll buy E85 directly from a race fuel vendor. this case is when you know that the engine will be put into the test.
#34
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (50)
What we need to ask ourselves is what happen when you find a bad gas station which add water or the E85 has more contamination that what the engine/tune can tolerate.
Maybe David could advice what needs to be consider in the tune or other readings from the engine. Base on those metrics, implement maybe a safe-fail mechanism to avoid catastrophic failure in the engine....
If I have a track day, I'll buy E85 directly from a race fuel vendor. this case is when you know that the engine will be put into the test.
Maybe David could advice what needs to be consider in the tune or other readings from the engine. Base on those metrics, implement maybe a safe-fail mechanism to avoid catastrophic failure in the engine....
If I have a track day, I'll buy E85 directly from a race fuel vendor. this case is when you know that the engine will be put into the test.
As you suggest, it would have to be deliberate contamination for water content to be in excess of 2%. This would never happen during manufacturing, only at an unscrupulous gas station. While an ethanol content sensor may not pickup a change from 0.5% to 10% water, your engine would tell you. Fuel trims would definitely drift lean, and my guess is that the motor wouldn't run as smoothly, probably have crappy idle.
The real concern should be getting a tank of E85 with lower than usual ethanol content, and as far as I'm concerned, a flex fuel sensor is great for monitoring this because the chance of having water-contaminated E85 is very very low.
Last edited by mrfred; Jun 27, 2014 at 02:12 PM.
#35
Evolved Member
iTrader: (41)
I prefer to spend the 2 minutes it takes to test it with my little test tube thingy and confirm that its the % im looking for before I fill her up.
#36
My only gripe with the flex fuel sensor is that your getting the reading after the fuel has been pumped into your car. Don't get me wrong it's better than nothing however what do you do when you fill your tank and then it reads e70? I have no interest in putting the car around for 200 miles due to a bad tank of gas. Or even worse what happens if it comes out to something like 50%?
I prefer to spend the 2 minutes it takes to test it with my little test tube thingy and confirm that its the % im looking for before I fill her up.
I prefer to spend the 2 minutes it takes to test it with my little test tube thingy and confirm that its the % im looking for before I fill her up.
Anyway you shouldn't have any issues during cruising if it's E85 or E70 yes? Your only concern would be boosted runs or WOT?
#37
Evolved Member
iTrader: (41)
^Haha well that is the issue. Can't say I've never been in that situation before...I'm not sure how to calculate what affect running e70 would have on your AFR's relative to if it were e85 but I'd guess it could richen things up maybe 1/2 a point?
Realistically the car would probably drive fine on e70 but yes, I would certainly not get on it knowing its not the same ethanol content my car is tuned for.
Realistically the car would probably drive fine on e70 but yes, I would certainly not get on it knowing its not the same ethanol content my car is tuned for.
#39
Evolving Member
iTrader: (7)
Great follow up video and good closure.
And to the ones that have a wideband and daily their vehicles, one can easily tell the difference from the fuel they got tuned with and another fuel in which your AFR values will either be a good half-point to point off based on whether the E85 content is high or low during a part throttle boost pull of about 15PSI+- or so. I always look when I fill up, so make sure you do that too along with using all the whiz-bang hardware we have today. If it's breaking up at that point, yes Virginia, we have a problem.
#40
Evolved Member
iTrader: (19)
This thread had reminded me how important it is to test the e85 before pumping in. I just ordered, from Buschur, earlier today a e85 tester. $15, a lot cheaper than the zeitronix and I will know what it is BEFORE it gets pumped in. If it tests bad I don't need to pump it in, Im running a dual map tune.
#41
^Haha well that is the issue. Can't say I've never been in that situation before...I'm not sure how to calculate what affect running e70 would have on your AFR's relative to if it were e85 but I'd guess it could richen things up maybe 1/2 a point?
Realistically the car would probably drive fine on e70 but yes, I would certainly not get on it knowing its not the same ethanol content my car is tuned for.
Realistically the car would probably drive fine on e70 but yes, I would certainly not get on it knowing its not the same ethanol content my car is tuned for.
#42
Newbie
If you were tuned for 11.5 AFR on E85 and filled with E70 your AFR would decrease but should still run OK, assuming moderate boost and timing advance. If you are tuned "on the edge" it may be different.
Once you are over 50% ethanol/50% gas you get 90% of the benefits of adding ethanol to gas.
Every car that's running tuned should have an AFR gauge and the owner should be educated.
I've been running Eflex in Australia now for over 4 years continuously. It varies from E70 to E85, depending on time of year, and I've never had any problems.
Once you are over 50% ethanol/50% gas you get 90% of the benefits of adding ethanol to gas.
Every car that's running tuned should have an AFR gauge and the owner should be educated.
I've been running Eflex in Australia now for over 4 years continuously. It varies from E70 to E85, depending on time of year, and I've never had any problems.
Last edited by wrx2evoIX; Jun 29, 2014 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Fixed AFR's effect re: lower ethanol content
#44
Evolving Member
iTrader: (7)
If you were tuned for 11.5 AFR on E85 and filled with E70 your AFR may increase to low/mid 12's but shouldn't run like **** It should still be OK, assuming moderate boost and timing advance. If you are tuned "on the edge" it may be different.
Once you are over 50% ethanol/50% gas you get 90% of the benefits of adding ethanol to gas.
Every car that's running tuned should have an AFR gauge and the owner should be educated.
I've been running Eflex in Australia now for over 4 years continuously. It varies from E70 to E85, depending on time of year, and I've never had any problems.
Once you are over 50% ethanol/50% gas you get 90% of the benefits of adding ethanol to gas.
Every car that's running tuned should have an AFR gauge and the owner should be educated.
I've been running Eflex in Australia now for over 4 years continuously. It varies from E70 to E85, depending on time of year, and I've never had any problems.
#45
Newbie
too much ethanol on board when I added that post. Yes, AFR's would be lower with E70. Tuning AFR's in the mid to high 11's should provide room either way for some variation in E content.