Balance Shaft Elimination Questions
Exactly what Kaj said. Jeez.
Friends car had no issues. Except the filter coming off. Came apart with plans to make power. Not because it broke. Internals looked great, timing was all perfect..
I have NEVER seen an oil filter come off on any other vehicle. Except for his DSM...lol
Friends car had no issues. Except the filter coming off. Came apart with plans to make power. Not because it broke. Internals looked great, timing was all perfect..
I have NEVER seen an oil filter come off on any other vehicle. Except for his DSM...lol
I really have to explain the 100 reasons an engine WITH balance shafts might vibrate a filter off?
I will start with the top three. 1. There are prolly 200 posts in this forum from people who did a timing belt job and mis-timed the belts. this causes MORE vibration than an engine without balance shafts. 2. There are a whole slew of reasons an engine can become unbalanced internally after an idiot would be mechanic makes a mistake. mismatched set of pistons. I have run pistons that were 26 grams unbalanced. That causes more vibration than no balance shafts. 3. Third also very common reason. Clutch material can break away causing very large imbalance.
So in conclusion saying you had a friend that had a car that had balance shafts and vibrated oil filters off is simply a poor mechanic drawing the wrong conclusion.
I will start with the top three. 1. There are prolly 200 posts in this forum from people who did a timing belt job and mis-timed the belts. this causes MORE vibration than an engine without balance shafts. 2. There are a whole slew of reasons an engine can become unbalanced internally after an idiot would be mechanic makes a mistake. mismatched set of pistons. I have run pistons that were 26 grams unbalanced. That causes more vibration than no balance shafts. 3. Third also very common reason. Clutch material can break away causing very large imbalance.
So in conclusion saying you had a friend that had a car that had balance shafts and vibrated oil filters off is simply a poor mechanic drawing the wrong conclusion.
Read my post. I edited it an hour ago to include that timing was set correctly. It also had never been apart. It all original parts under the timing cover, and not tool marks on any hardware. We weighed the rods/pistons and they were all within a few grams. The clutch wasn't messed up. It simply had the oil filter come off once. When we had the crank balanced, the machine shop said they only had to take about 5 grams off of one counterweight. They charged us less than half what they normally charge for balancing because it was so easy.
Maybe the poor mechanic is the one that can't get a filter or flywheel to stay on a car that doesn't have balance shafts?
Your experience and opinion is valued Jerry, but just because others have had different experiences, and have a different opinion, does not make them an idiot. I have more than a few friends running around Vegas with built 4g's with deleted balance shafts. No issues, red Loctite becomes a necessity though.
I just put a motor in a friends car because the bsahft belt came off. Perfectly healthy engine that gotten taken out because the bshaft belt came off, and took out the timing belt. Timing job was done about 45k miles prior. Was belt not tensioned properly? Maybe. But, they can't come off if they're not there in the first place..
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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Grand Island, NE
Stories of DSM's throwing oil filters were pretty common back when. If you ignored the oil filter instructions to hand tighten only and applied extra torque with a filter wrench this was avoided. Once this information circulated the next problem was loose oil coolers.
The oil cooler was stacked above the filter housing and the assembly held together with a threaded nipple with a hex at it's center. Getting an overtightened filter off would sometimes remove the nipple which took a large deep well socket - one I found I didn't have when this happened to me.
The oil cooler was stacked above the filter housing and the assembly held together with a threaded nipple with a hex at it's center. Getting an overtightened filter off would sometimes remove the nipple which took a large deep well socket - one I found I didn't have when this happened to me.
Last edited by barneyb; Jan 19, 2017 at 11:18 AM.
Having different experience to share is all fine a dandy. But to infer its a good idea to eliminate balance shafts because you had a car with balance shafts vibrating filters off is nothing short of insidious. There is no other way to say it. balance shafts are there to eliminate vibrations. they are expensive and serve a valuable function. They do no CAUSE filters to vibrate off. and that is basically the message you were sending to readers when the same car was rebuilt without shafts and there was no longer a problem... not good posting plane and simple. You clearly to this day HAVE NO CLUE why the filters were coming off that car. That type of posting does not lead people into making sharp decisions on their own car.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Croatia
unfortunately dont have that data. all gearbox rebuilds are boxes that were delivered to me. I can say I have opened a dozen evo 4 boxes. not a single one had a problem with 5th gear. I suspect the factory flyh wheel on the 4 is far better at absorbing vibration. The 8 flywheel was lightened up quite a bit.
another question alltogeather, in connection with gearboxes, is does the car in question run stiff clutch plate or a spring one..
So, blaming everything on balance shafts is a bit OTT
Having different experience to share is all fine a dandy. But to infer its a good idea to eliminate balance shafts because you had a car with balance shafts vibrating filters off is nothing short of insidious. There is no other way to say it. balance shafts are there to eliminate vibrations. they are expensive and serve a valuable function. They do no CAUSE filters to vibrate off. and that is basically the message you were sending to readers when the same car was rebuilt without shafts and there was no longer a problem... not good posting plane and simple. You clearly to this day HAVE NO CLUE why the filters were coming off that car. That type of posting does not lead people into making sharp decisions on their own car.
Your experience of the 5th gear issue sounds more like torsional whip causing a problem, not harmonics. Especially the worn splines.
So to summarize (correct me if I'm wrong)
If you are keeping stick internals, don't race, under 400hp keep your balance shafts
If you are on upgraded internals, high HP, race, have no issue checking bolts tightness etc, delete them
My odd thing is, I plan on getting TSCOMPTUNED 2.0 LR but would like to be around 400 Hp (no e85, cali 91 ****) BUT would like to keep the balance shafts, but I think he takes them off
We'll see
If you are keeping stick internals, don't race, under 400hp keep your balance shafts
If you are on upgraded internals, high HP, race, have no issue checking bolts tightness etc, delete them
My odd thing is, I plan on getting TSCOMPTUNED 2.0 LR but would like to be around 400 Hp (no e85, cali 91 ****) BUT would like to keep the balance shafts, but I think he takes them off
We'll see
Having different experience to share is all fine a dandy. But to infer its a good idea to eliminate balance shafts because you had a car with balance shafts vibrating filters off is nothing short of insidious. There is no other way to say it. balance shafts are there to eliminate vibrations. they are expensive and serve a valuable function. They do no CAUSE filters to vibrate off. and that is basically the message you were sending to readers when the same car was rebuilt without shafts and there was no longer a problem... not good posting plane and simple. You clearly to this day HAVE NO CLUE why the filters were coming off that car. That type of posting does not lead people into making sharp decisions on their own car.
So to summarize (correct me if I'm wrong)
If you are keeping stick internals, don't race, under 400hp keep your balance shafts
If you are on upgraded internals, high HP, race, have no issue checking bolts tightness etc, delete them
My odd thing is, I plan on getting TSCOMPTUNED 2.0 LR but would like to be around 400 Hp (no e85, cali 91 ****) BUT would like to keep the balance shafts, but I think he takes them off
We'll see
If you are keeping stick internals, don't race, under 400hp keep your balance shafts
If you are on upgraded internals, high HP, race, have no issue checking bolts tightness etc, delete them
My odd thing is, I plan on getting TSCOMPTUNED 2.0 LR but would like to be around 400 Hp (no e85, cali 91 ****) BUT would like to keep the balance shafts, but I think he takes them off
We'll see
I like the shafts, just got worried when I saw my BS belt. If I weren't lazy and was okay with checking the belt frequently, I would keep the shafts.
My car DID go about 130k miles without the belt failing. Not sure why my last one started fraying. It could have been a bad belt? Hell, maybe I didn't install it right.
I wonder what happens if you leave the front one in and leave the rear belt off LOL
No, both shafts counteract the harmonic vibration created by the rotating assembly. Having just one shaft would significantly reduce this canceling effect, and instead of canceling the harmonics from the rotating assembly, could possibly create a new, and additional, harmonic vibration.
Pretty sure you can get a "timing belt kit" from Gates that includes the balance shaft belt. I do not recall if the belt is made with Kevlar, but I do recall Gates claiming that their belts are 300% stronger than stock O.E. belts. HKS may also make one. Dunno, though, as I got the Gates belts and stopped looking into it.