Diamond Race Cars V3 front subframe with manual rack conversion. 41lbs LIGHTER
Jun 5, 2015, 01:04 PM
#17
Yeah, after figuring out what company makes that rack, they make some nice and light stuff. Very cool setup. Any chance you guys measured out bumpsteer with these changes?
94AWDCoupe, it's a Z3 rack that's meant to be used with the electric column steering assist.
Not sure how you'd really add a damper to it easily.
http://s874.photobucket.com/user/mik...bjqx3.jpg.html
94AWDCoupe, it's a Z3 rack that's meant to be used with the electric column steering assist.
Not sure how you'd really add a damper to it easily.
http://s874.photobucket.com/user/mik...bjqx3.jpg.html
Jun 5, 2015, 01:29 PM
#18
So from what I've read & what 94AWDcoupe said, the factory rack is 2.1-2.3 turns lock to lock.
3.25 is a bit of a difference but like Dan said, for what he does with his car, he will be perfect fine with it.
Dan, so our (3) ratio options are 2, 3.25 & 4?
Besides just going in a straight line, I enjoy some spirited driving, autox & a little road course action.
^^^With that being said would a 2 turn lock to lock ratio be too "tight"? I am VERY interested in a manual rack setup but I want to make sure it's setup best for what I enjoy doing with the car...
3.25 is a bit of a difference but like Dan said, for what he does with his car, he will be perfect fine with it.
Dan, so our (3) ratio options are 2, 3.25 & 4?
Besides just going in a straight line, I enjoy some spirited driving, autox & a little road course action.
^^^With that being said would a 2 turn lock to lock ratio be too "tight"? I am VERY interested in a manual rack setup but I want to make sure it's setup best for what I enjoy doing with the car...
Jun 5, 2015, 02:59 PM
#19
2 turns lock (assuming the same travel) would rip your arms off. Like I said above, 3.0 L-L on a 2400 pound car is pretty brutal with 215s R-S3s. Some 275 A6s and 3000 pounds would likely be flat out unmanageable.
I should add...I am running like 7.5-8.5* of caster too. Probably a significant amount of the effort is due to that. That's also in the range you want to be though for a strut based car so...
I should add...I am running like 7.5-8.5* of caster too. Probably a significant amount of the effort is due to that. That's also in the range you want to be though for a strut based car so...
Last edited by 03whitegsr; Jun 5, 2015 at 03:06 PM.
Jun 5, 2015, 05:47 PM
#20
I don't know Exactly how the ratio options will work. More or less from what I gather you can give the ratio you want. From 2 to 4 turns. I would have to find this info out.
On another note I'm not sure what you guys expect. Look I didn't have this made just to make it. I did it because I didn't want power steering. I did not want to deal with the feel of de powering a stock rack. It flat out sucks. I also decided the electric power steering is not for me. Nor did I want to figure a way to build one, go threw the Hassel of installing it and only drop a few lbs at most. So I had a manual setup made. I don't give a crap about turns. I don't make turns I don't drive like a rally car driver on back roads. I have zero interest in that type of driving.
I drag race. One direction. Park, cool down, repeat. I do drive on the street but again. I just drive. I drive faster and harder in my pickup then I do in the Evo.
This rack option is not for everyone. It is for the guys who De power the stock rack and hate it, don't want electric setups, want to drop weight which is mainly drag racers. Done deal. Don't like it. Don't buy it. Build something else.
On another note I'm not sure what you guys expect. Look I didn't have this made just to make it. I did it because I didn't want power steering. I did not want to deal with the feel of de powering a stock rack. It flat out sucks. I also decided the electric power steering is not for me. Nor did I want to figure a way to build one, go threw the Hassel of installing it and only drop a few lbs at most. So I had a manual setup made. I don't give a crap about turns. I don't make turns I don't drive like a rally car driver on back roads. I have zero interest in that type of driving.
I drag race. One direction. Park, cool down, repeat. I do drive on the street but again. I just drive. I drive faster and harder in my pickup then I do in the Evo.
This rack option is not for everyone. It is for the guys who De power the stock rack and hate it, don't want electric setups, want to drop weight which is mainly drag racers. Done deal. Don't like it. Don't buy it. Build something else.
Jun 5, 2015, 05:49 PM
#21
2 turns lock (assuming the same travel) would rip your arms off. Like I said above, 3.0 L-L on a 2400 pound car is pretty brutal with 215s R-S3s. Some 275 A6s and 3000 pounds would likely be flat out unmanageable.
I should add...I am running like 7.5-8.5* of caster too. Probably a significant amount of the effort is due to that. That's also in the range you want to be though for a strut based car so...
I should add...I am running like 7.5-8.5* of caster too. Probably a significant amount of the effort is due to that. That's also in the range you want to be though for a strut based car so...
If memory it correct OEM was 5.5 inch of travel. This rack is 5.0
Before you shoot me for the numbers if they are off I am sorry. But either way this rack is 1/2 inch less then whatever OEM is
Jun 6, 2015, 08:53 AM
#23
Dan, I think you are taking some of the comments/posts the wrong way. You built it for drag racing but there are some persons who carve canyons etc. who might want a setup like this if it is not too compromised by the type of driving they do. So its only natural for persons to dig into the details of the setup.
I'm interested to know about the bump steer.
I'm interested to know about the bump steer.
Jun 6, 2015, 04:32 PM
#24
Dan, I think you are taking some of the comments/posts the wrong way. You built it for drag racing but there are some persons who carve canyons etc. who might want a setup like this if it is not too compromised by the type of driving they do. So its only natural for persons to dig into the details of the setup.
I'm interested to know about the bump steer.
I'm interested to know about the bump steer.
I know Dan personally & he obviously gets a little sensitive sally towards posts sometimes...
Jun 6, 2015, 06:21 PM
#25
Evodan, yeah man sorry I wasn't going after you at all. Like I said, sweet setup for what you are doing. I said that earlier and I've said it in other threads about this topic and you built almost exactly what I'd go after for drag racing/weekend warrior type car.
My posts earlier, keep in mind that I may have researched this a bit too and your weights posted are crazy...however, I fully acknowledge the fact that I have no idea what that rack weighs. I have done a lot of looking on racks and very few come in under 12 pounds...but knowing who made that rack, yeah I could see it being WAY lighter than the norm.
Look above though, 06MREvo was asking about autox with a 2.0 L-L manual rack. I was responding to that question.
My posts earlier, keep in mind that I may have researched this a bit too and your weights posted are crazy...however, I fully acknowledge the fact that I have no idea what that rack weighs. I have done a lot of looking on racks and very few come in under 12 pounds...but knowing who made that rack, yeah I could see it being WAY lighter than the norm.
Look above though, 06MREvo was asking about autox with a 2.0 L-L manual rack. I was responding to that question.
Jun 6, 2015, 09:30 PM
#26
Evodan, yeah man sorry I wasn't going after you at all. Like I said, sweet setup for what you are doing. I said that earlier and I've said it in other threads about this topic and you built almost exactly what I'd go after for drag racing/weekend warrior type car.
My posts earlier, keep in mind that I may have researched this a bit too and your weights posted are crazy...however, I fully acknowledge the fact that I have no idea what that rack weighs. I have done a lot of looking on racks and very few come in under 12 pounds...but knowing who made that rack, yeah I could see it being WAY lighter than the norm.
Look above though, 06MREvo was asking about autox with a 2.0 L-L manual rack. I was responding to that question.
My posts earlier, keep in mind that I may have researched this a bit too and your weights posted are crazy...however, I fully acknowledge the fact that I have no idea what that rack weighs. I have done a lot of looking on racks and very few come in under 12 pounds...but knowing who made that rack, yeah I could see it being WAY lighter than the norm.
Look above though, 06MREvo was asking about autox with a 2.0 L-L manual rack. I was responding to that question.
I got the car buttoned up and tomorrow I should be able to drive it. I have the street tires on it now and it turns a good bit easier then it did on the QTP tires.
as for a dampener. If it needs it then i can look into having one made. But again AFAIK this is a first so things need to be tested.
BTW not that it will tell you anything but i found it funny. When I got the rack I was able to shake it back and forth like that fitness weight being it was so light.
Jun 7, 2015, 01:59 PM
#27
Drove the car around town a bit today. I would say roughly 20miles total and speeds from 0 to 45mph. Not exactly smooth roads around here either. I purposely tried hitting bumps and things to get the feel for feedback.
At a stand still it is not bad at all. After all it is a manual rack. It is 1000 times better then a De powered OEM rack. I can live with this.
Once moving it is perfectly fine. I actually like that I can feel the road when lane changing/adjusting a straight line. Going around turns and such is also great feeling. The steering ratio is 3.25 lock to lock and on a stock car it is 2.1. you do notice you have to turn the wheel a little more then normal to achieve the same amount of turn but its nothing over the top. I am used to the quick touchy feel of the OEM setup so this will take a moment to get used to. But it should not be bad at all. It is like driving a regular car now.
As for bump steer. It is present. I am not going to say it is not. I don't think its un controllable and I did find some nice holes while in a turn and it does not rip out of my hands.
How ever I do agree a damper kit may be a nice addition. So I will look into it and see what I come up with. If I don't find anything that interests me then I won't even worry about it.
Overall I am supper happy with this setup. I am glad I had this made.
At a stand still it is not bad at all. After all it is a manual rack. It is 1000 times better then a De powered OEM rack. I can live with this.
Once moving it is perfectly fine. I actually like that I can feel the road when lane changing/adjusting a straight line. Going around turns and such is also great feeling. The steering ratio is 3.25 lock to lock and on a stock car it is 2.1. you do notice you have to turn the wheel a little more then normal to achieve the same amount of turn but its nothing over the top. I am used to the quick touchy feel of the OEM setup so this will take a moment to get used to. But it should not be bad at all. It is like driving a regular car now.
As for bump steer. It is present. I am not going to say it is not. I don't think its un controllable and I did find some nice holes while in a turn and it does not rip out of my hands.
How ever I do agree a damper kit may be a nice addition. So I will look into it and see what I come up with. If I don't find anything that interests me then I won't even worry about it.
Overall I am supper happy with this setup. I am glad I had this made.
Jun 7, 2015, 03:11 PM
#28
its been over 30 years since I have owned a VW but if I remember correctly when the steering damper was bad you couldnt just run with out it. there was a mph where the harmonics would cycle the steering. much like driving a car without a shock . I remember driving a car once without shocks and when the car hit 45mph the rear end bounced up and down uncontrollably. I remember giggling and saying to myself "so thats what shocks are for". I am pretty sure there was a mph on the VW when the steering wheel would wobble back and forth without the damper. VW did have a steering "box" with a worm gear, not a rack. but cant see how that would matter. and maybe it was a problem because VW front ends are so light. dont know.
Jun 7, 2015, 04:45 PM
#29
In my experience with air-cooled VWs, you could drive without a steering damper, but they would rattle a bit between about 50-55.
its been over 30 years since I have owned a VW but if I remember correctly when the steering damper was bad you couldnt just run with out it. there was a mph where the harmonics would cycle the steering. much like driving a car without a shock . I remember driving a car once without shocks and when the car hit 45mph the rear end bounced up and down uncontrollably. I remember giggling and saying to myself "so thats what shocks are for". I am pretty sure there was a mph on the VW when the steering wheel would wobble back and forth without the damper. VW did have a steering "box" with a worm gear, not a rack. but cant see how that would matter. and maybe it was a problem because VW front ends are so light. dont know.
