Diamond Race Cars V3 front subframe with manual rack conversion. 41lbs LIGHTER
Jun 2, 2015, 07:26 PM
#1
Diamond Race Cars V3 front subframe with manual rack conversion. 41lbs LIGHTER
As you know Diamond Race Cars has been making light weight chromoly subframes for the Evo 7, 8, and 9 CT9A chassis. These sub frames have been a great product. I had the first one they made and quickly got it fitted on the car. The options the customer has is great. You can get them with or without sway bar mounting points and exhaust hanger's. Either way you get them they are 100% bolt on. The fit and finish is outstanding. This sub frame dropped 12LBS off the car. and again was 100% bolt on.
But me being me that was not good enough. I needed more. So I contacted Diamond Race Cars and spoke to Dan ''the owner'' and asked him if he would make me the same design sub frame but LIGHTER. He said yes. So a few days later i got a call explaining what was done to make this sub frame lighter. He uses thinner and smaller chromoly tubing. This sub frame has become a V2 style. It is recommended for DRAG cars only however I did plan to drive it on the street. Dan did mention it would be fine BUT would rather the V1 be street used VS the V2. The v2 is 3.5LBS lighter then the V1 which makes it 15.5LBS lighter then stock. And yet is 100% bolt on. Below are some pics of the V1 and the V2 sub frames.
V1 sub frame
V2 light weight sub frame
And again I needed a little bit more. So I contacted Dan again and i got a bit of a giggle from him saying now what. HAHA. I had said I had a V3 sub frame in mind and that it needed to be crazy. I have been debating on deleting my power steering. But I hated HATED the feel of a de powered rack. It is just way to stiff and a PITA to drive. Plus the weight savings was not worth the headache. So I mentioned to Dan at Diamond that I wanted a true manual rack conversion. He had said to give him a few days to do some homework and that he would get back to me. A few days went by and I got a call saying he may have something figured out that should work. We spoke about what I was looking for and What needed to happen to have this be 100% bolt on. So Dan sourced a manual rack that he could start with. Once the manual rack arrived he built a sub frame and quickly got it mounted with a little bit of custom modifications needed. So without further delay of me babbling lets talk specs and see some pics.
V3 lightweight sub frame with custom manual rack. This V3 setup drops 41lbs YES 41 POUNDS LIGHTER then the OEM setup. Removal of the pump, lines, fluid, brackets, hardware 10.8LBS. Manual rack is 15lbs LIGHTER then the stock rack. the sub frame is 15.5lbs lighter then the OEM sub frame. This setup also retains OEM or after market sway bars, exhaust hangers and optional rear dog bone bracket. Notice on my sub frame that piece is now part of the sub frame. The tie rod bars are custom made and allow the use of the OEM tie rod ends thus making this piece 100% drop in ''how ever your OEM steering shaft MUST be sent in to Diamond race cars for modification. the steering ratio is 3.25 TURNS LOCK TO LOCK.
Yes the firewall boot is out of my car. the OEM boot will work but i have other plans to close off that hole for further weight reduction savings.
here are some pics.
Here are 2 videos i quickly made to show how easy this thing turns. please keep in mind the car is on Hoosier tires. i am outside the car turning with 1 hand, recording and talking with no sign of distress. it just turns so nicely.
and if that is not enough for you i threw my fiance in the car and told her to turn the wheel. here is a video of that. also note she is not tall enough to even sit in the car correctly. so it should be harder for her to turn yet she gets it lock to lock with little effort.
in a few days i will get some video up of the car on the road. thanks for reading and i hope this product lands in some bad *** cars.
But me being me that was not good enough. I needed more. So I contacted Diamond Race Cars and spoke to Dan ''the owner'' and asked him if he would make me the same design sub frame but LIGHTER. He said yes. So a few days later i got a call explaining what was done to make this sub frame lighter. He uses thinner and smaller chromoly tubing. This sub frame has become a V2 style. It is recommended for DRAG cars only however I did plan to drive it on the street. Dan did mention it would be fine BUT would rather the V1 be street used VS the V2. The v2 is 3.5LBS lighter then the V1 which makes it 15.5LBS lighter then stock. And yet is 100% bolt on. Below are some pics of the V1 and the V2 sub frames.
V1 sub frame
V2 light weight sub frame
And again I needed a little bit more. So I contacted Dan again and i got a bit of a giggle from him saying now what. HAHA. I had said I had a V3 sub frame in mind and that it needed to be crazy. I have been debating on deleting my power steering. But I hated HATED the feel of a de powered rack. It is just way to stiff and a PITA to drive. Plus the weight savings was not worth the headache. So I mentioned to Dan at Diamond that I wanted a true manual rack conversion. He had said to give him a few days to do some homework and that he would get back to me. A few days went by and I got a call saying he may have something figured out that should work. We spoke about what I was looking for and What needed to happen to have this be 100% bolt on. So Dan sourced a manual rack that he could start with. Once the manual rack arrived he built a sub frame and quickly got it mounted with a little bit of custom modifications needed. So without further delay of me babbling lets talk specs and see some pics.
V3 lightweight sub frame with custom manual rack. This V3 setup drops 41lbs YES 41 POUNDS LIGHTER then the OEM setup. Removal of the pump, lines, fluid, brackets, hardware 10.8LBS. Manual rack is 15lbs LIGHTER then the stock rack. the sub frame is 15.5lbs lighter then the OEM sub frame. This setup also retains OEM or after market sway bars, exhaust hangers and optional rear dog bone bracket. Notice on my sub frame that piece is now part of the sub frame. The tie rod bars are custom made and allow the use of the OEM tie rod ends thus making this piece 100% drop in ''how ever your OEM steering shaft MUST be sent in to Diamond race cars for modification. the steering ratio is 3.25 TURNS LOCK TO LOCK.
Yes the firewall boot is out of my car. the OEM boot will work but i have other plans to close off that hole for further weight reduction savings.
here are some pics.
Here are 2 videos i quickly made to show how easy this thing turns. please keep in mind the car is on Hoosier tires. i am outside the car turning with 1 hand, recording and talking with no sign of distress. it just turns so nicely.
and if that is not enough for you i threw my fiance in the car and told her to turn the wheel. here is a video of that. also note she is not tall enough to even sit in the car correctly. so it should be harder for her to turn yet she gets it lock to lock with little effort.
in a few days i will get some video up of the car on the road. thanks for reading and i hope this product lands in some bad *** cars.
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Jun 4, 2015, 11:58 AM
#12
Nice man, this to me makes WAY more sense when trying to drop weight. However, something is off on your numbers. I have the stock weight of the rack and the stock rack alone is 16.8 pounds. It's not a heavy piece at all and there is no way that replacement rack drops 15 pounds alone.
I daily a (true) manual rack BMW that's 3.0 turns lock to lock. I can add a little to the conversation. For perspective, the car is 2400 pounds and has 215s on it with a whole 130HP. I'm much more into handling and rest assured, any corner I can crush at top speed on my way to work, I do.
Depending on the tires on it, it's varies from perfectly fine to "painful."
With low grip/squishy sidewall tires, it's barely even noticeable that it's not power steering. Sure, I can't park it with one finger, but I easily manage parking and tight U-turns without issue. Usually while holding a drink in one hand and countersteering with the knee while upshifting on the u-turns...
On tires with stiff sidewalls and lots of grip...it's a whole different story. It's not that the effort is high to steer the car. It's the amount of instant feedback that is the issue. When you step over the grip limit and then grip quickly returns (hitting a decent bump mid corner or what ever), there is a tremendous amount of feedback. The steering wheel instantly turns a bunch when it loses load and then the second grip comes back, it jerks the steering wheel back to roughly the original position. The effect of this, if I drive the car hard for any amount of time, my arms, back and neck HURT from the constant shock load of it all.
I daily a (true) manual rack BMW that's 3.0 turns lock to lock. I can add a little to the conversation. For perspective, the car is 2400 pounds and has 215s on it with a whole 130HP. I'm much more into handling and rest assured, any corner I can crush at top speed on my way to work, I do.
Depending on the tires on it, it's varies from perfectly fine to "painful."
With low grip/squishy sidewall tires, it's barely even noticeable that it's not power steering. Sure, I can't park it with one finger, but I easily manage parking and tight U-turns without issue. Usually while holding a drink in one hand and countersteering with the knee while upshifting on the u-turns...
On tires with stiff sidewalls and lots of grip...it's a whole different story. It's not that the effort is high to steer the car. It's the amount of instant feedback that is the issue. When you step over the grip limit and then grip quickly returns (hitting a decent bump mid corner or what ever), there is a tremendous amount of feedback. The steering wheel instantly turns a bunch when it loses load and then the second grip comes back, it jerks the steering wheel back to roughly the original position. The effect of this, if I drive the car hard for any amount of time, my arms, back and neck HURT from the constant shock load of it all.
Jun 4, 2015, 12:19 PM
#13
Nice man, this to me makes WAY more sense when trying to drop weight. However, something is off on your numbers. I have the stock weight of the rack and the stock rack alone is 16.8 pounds. It's not a heavy piece at all and there is no way that replacement rack drops 15 pounds alone.
I daily a (true) manual rack BMW that's 3.0 turns lock to lock. I can add a little to the conversation. For perspective, the car is 2400 pounds and has 215s on it with a whole 130HP. I'm much more into handling and rest assured, any corner I can crush at top speed on my way to work, I do.
Depending on the tires on it, it's varies from perfectly fine to "painful."
With low grip/squishy sidewall tires, it's barely even noticeable that it's not power steering. Sure, I can't park it with one finger, but I easily manage parking and tight U-turns without issue. Usually while holding a drink in one hand and countersteering with the knee while upshifting on the u-turns...
On tires with stiff sidewalls and lots of grip...it's a whole different story. It's not that the effort is high to steer the car. It's the amount of instant feedback that is the issue. When you step over the grip limit and then grip quickly returns (hitting a decent bump mid corner or what ever), there is a tremendous amount of feedback. The steering wheel instantly turns a bunch when it loses load and then the second grip comes back, it jerks the steering wheel back to roughly the original position. The effect of this, if I drive the car hard for any amount of time, my arms, back and neck HURT from the constant shock load of it all.
I daily a (true) manual rack BMW that's 3.0 turns lock to lock. I can add a little to the conversation. For perspective, the car is 2400 pounds and has 215s on it with a whole 130HP. I'm much more into handling and rest assured, any corner I can crush at top speed on my way to work, I do.
Depending on the tires on it, it's varies from perfectly fine to "painful."
With low grip/squishy sidewall tires, it's barely even noticeable that it's not power steering. Sure, I can't park it with one finger, but I easily manage parking and tight U-turns without issue. Usually while holding a drink in one hand and countersteering with the knee while upshifting on the u-turns...
On tires with stiff sidewalls and lots of grip...it's a whole different story. It's not that the effort is high to steer the car. It's the amount of instant feedback that is the issue. When you step over the grip limit and then grip quickly returns (hitting a decent bump mid corner or what ever), there is a tremendous amount of feedback. The steering wheel instantly turns a bunch when it loses load and then the second grip comes back, it jerks the steering wheel back to roughly the original position. The effect of this, if I drive the car hard for any amount of time, my arms, back and neck HURT from the constant shock load of it all.
Subframe is 15.5 lighter then stock
Pump, return line, fluid, brackets and hardware is 10.8lbs. Not including the cooling line which I didn't have.
As for it being a track style rack I never said it was. Ratios can be changed from 2 turn to 4 turn as well. This is not for everyone. How ever it IS for me so I had it made and am sharing for others it IS for. I will have a video this weekend of me driving it. I have driven manual racks with 4 turn lock to lock. It doesn't bother me and I don't expect this will either.
Jun 4, 2015, 04:31 PM
#14
Wha??? 6 pounds for the rack with tierods and inner links? The rod ends alone are probably 2 lbs. Seems impossibly light but DAMN that's a light rack if that's a correct weight.
If my post above came off as saying it's not streetable, it wasn't meant to. 94AWDcoupe said it wasn't something you could put in a street car. I'm saying "that depends."
People get focused on how hard it is to turn at low speeds though and in my opinion, that's really not that big of an issue. The amount of time you spend steering high angles at low speeds is relatively insignificant.
If you are cruising around on soft sidewall drag based tires, IMO you'd be perfectly fine with the manual conversion. If you like carving corners on stiff/sticky tires and on less than perfect surfaces, you might find it "interesting."
I will add, as far as "feel" for what the front tires are doing...holy crap its truly crazy how much power steering really hides from you. On the R-S3s I always felt the limit was a little vague on my car and fairly difficult to tell when you were approaching the limit or even over it. Now I can tell you, that edge is razor sharp...but with manual steering, you know EXACTLY where it is. If you could get the feedback with some high speed damping to help reduce the kickback, manual steering would be awesome.
If my post above came off as saying it's not streetable, it wasn't meant to. 94AWDcoupe said it wasn't something you could put in a street car. I'm saying "that depends."
People get focused on how hard it is to turn at low speeds though and in my opinion, that's really not that big of an issue. The amount of time you spend steering high angles at low speeds is relatively insignificant.
If you are cruising around on soft sidewall drag based tires, IMO you'd be perfectly fine with the manual conversion. If you like carving corners on stiff/sticky tires and on less than perfect surfaces, you might find it "interesting."
I will add, as far as "feel" for what the front tires are doing...holy crap its truly crazy how much power steering really hides from you. On the R-S3s I always felt the limit was a little vague on my car and fairly difficult to tell when you were approaching the limit or even over it. Now I can tell you, that edge is razor sharp...but with manual steering, you know EXACTLY where it is. If you could get the feedback with some high speed damping to help reduce the kickback, manual steering would be awesome.
Jun 4, 2015, 06:11 PM
#15
Wha??? 6 pounds for the rack with tierods and inner links? The rod ends alone are probably 2 lbs. Seems impossibly light but DAMN that's a light rack if that's a correct weight.
If my post above came off as saying it's not streetable, it wasn't meant to. 94AWDcoupe said it wasn't something you could put in a street car. I'm saying "that depends."
People get focused on how hard it is to turn at low speeds though and in my opinion, that's really not that big of an issue. The amount of time you spend steering high angles at low speeds is relatively insignificant.
If you are cruising around on soft sidewall drag based tires, IMO you'd be perfectly fine with the manual conversion. If you like carving corners on stiff/sticky tires and on less than perfect surfaces, you might find it "interesting."
I will add, as far as "feel" for what the front tires are doing...holy crap its truly crazy how much power steering really hides from you. On the R-S3s I always felt the limit was a little vague on my car and fairly difficult to tell when you were approaching the limit or even over it. Now I can tell you, that edge is razor sharp...but with manual steering, you know EXACTLY where it is. If you could get the feedback with some high speed damping to help reduce the kickback, manual steering would be awesome.
If my post above came off as saying it's not streetable, it wasn't meant to. 94AWDcoupe said it wasn't something you could put in a street car. I'm saying "that depends."
People get focused on how hard it is to turn at low speeds though and in my opinion, that's really not that big of an issue. The amount of time you spend steering high angles at low speeds is relatively insignificant.
If you are cruising around on soft sidewall drag based tires, IMO you'd be perfectly fine with the manual conversion. If you like carving corners on stiff/sticky tires and on less than perfect surfaces, you might find it "interesting."
I will add, as far as "feel" for what the front tires are doing...holy crap its truly crazy how much power steering really hides from you. On the R-S3s I always felt the limit was a little vague on my car and fairly difficult to tell when you were approaching the limit or even over it. Now I can tell you, that edge is razor sharp...but with manual steering, you know EXACTLY where it is. If you could get the feedback with some high speed damping to help reduce the kickback, manual steering would be awesome.
The rack and tie rods is under 6lbs. Its fake feeling.