Interesting stuff on the mat. No worries on the tank, I was initally thinking it was a cut up evo tank to make it half size but then realized it wasn't an evo tank at all.

I fully agree, all the extra pieces of the surge tank is a downfall, as mentioned.

I think the best answer is the obvious answer. Fuel cell with internal surge reservoir like ATI does. Just simple flap doors and ramps/baffles to get fuel in the internal reservoir and trap it there. Then a big *** single intank fuel pump or a low profile inlet with an external pump. Not to mention how much better off you'd likely be in a wreck anyway.

Down fall here though, the price to get an Ethanol compatible fuel cell is $$$.

 

Yeah, fuel cells are a pain in both expense and installation in terms of adapting your car to suit it. This is why I went with the mat, because I'm hoping its not garbage.

 

Evo's have a saddle fuel tank so its a lot more complicated. You'd need 2x hydramats with a lift pump to operate the right hand side of the saddle. THen u have to wire the 2nd fuel pump somehow without overheating the fuel. But on track at lower fuel levels, the right hand lift pump should start sucking air at some point and eventually i'm sure the pump will burn out.

 

You would only need the mat on the driver side where stock sending unit is. the OEM siphon works sufficiently to pull fuel from the other side of the tank.

 

Are you talking about the 10? or the 8/9? I don't even know what the other side of the saddle looks like. Are we even sure the flow from the siphon system can keep up with fueling requirements in cases where the left side of the tank is drawn down on left hand sweepers? I don't think it can, even on 93 on a stock turbo. I'd rather be wrong though.

 

the 8/9. You're not going to use that much fuel in one corner that you'll drain the mat. My car doesn't starve at autocross with <1/4 tank. I got it to starve once, but the fuel light was on. Def shouldn't be on track if the fuel light is on...lol


I still think a simpler solution to this is a surge tank now that I've looked into it more. Put a walbro 450 in the surge tank, and a 255 in the stock tank to fill the surge the tank, and you have plenty of fuel for 600-650whp on E85. If your wiring is good, you're not going to have reliability issues with those pumps, especially the Evo guys track at that power level, so it would work perfectly for most guys.

 

My evo starves in auto x at 1/2 tank. It starves on track at anything near 3/4 tank. My car lasts 15 minutes of a session before i have to dial it back gasing out of left hand turns. It would be wonderful if the stock siphon could keep up even for stuff at my power levels. I'm just not sure i believe it. Because then all i need is a hydramat ($200) vs a full blown surge tank kit (1k).

 

I don't think your issue is the siphon keeping up. If the siphon couldn't keep up, and you were draining the pump side of the tank, your fuel level would indicate it because the fuel level sender is on that side of the tank.

If you want to try the hydra at setup, I feel like it will fix your issue.

 

Just be sure to get a large enough one to handle your fuel flowing goals. Which means a 15x15 or similar with the 1/2" NPT fitting.

 

Just pulled the trigger on a Hydramat the other day.

I ended up ordering the 11"x 11" mat with the 1/2" NPT , Holley install magnets, a Radium fuel pump inlet adapter, and a Radium venturi jet pump.

My plan is to cut/remove a bottom section of the plastic swirl pot, leaving the fuel level sender intact, but enough that the remains of the pot wont squash the Hydramat while it lays on the bottom of the tank.

I am going to ditch the factory venturi/siphon pump and install the the Radium pump to the factory return and crossover tube to pull the fuel over from right side of the saddle. This is mainly because I'm not sure how much of the bucket (and siphon) I can leave in place, and the Radium jet pump will offer some flexibility on where I decide to place it. The return/siphon will dump directly on to the Hydramat.

I still need to figure out how to mount the fuel pump since the Torque Solutions adpater will have to go due to the way the Radium Inlet adapter is attached to the pump. I was thinking about doing something similar to the way the Buschur Racing double pumper is setup. He just has the pumps hose clamped to the side of the bucket.

https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...oducts_id=1430

I'm not 100% it will work, but I figured it was worth a shot if I could avoid the expense/complexity/ and re-tune needed for a surge tank system.

 

Awesome first post bud. I guess the question is 1) can the radium venturi jet create enough flow to keep up with engine demand (say 1/4 tank on long left hand turns), and 2) Can the radium venturi jet be sized to create zero change in your fuel pressure before and after. I assume 2 will influence 1 greatly. I'll put through a call to radium today to see if i can figure this out.

 

Those are good questions.

I'm not sure about #1, there isn't any flow data available, it would take some testing.... but as I think about it, the venturi pump must flow less than the return line that powers it.

With respect to that, I'm sure the jet pump by it self won't be able to keep up at 1/4 tank. It'll come down to whether or not the Hydramat works as advertised, and how (or if) fuel will pile up against the driveshaft tunnel portion of the tank. If the return is flowing fuel, the jet pump will siphon, but as long as there is fuel at the siphon to pick up.

It would be good to know where the siphon pickup is on the other side of the tank. That way we could know if it could be re-located in a better spot for the left handers, or if it would be worth fabbing a new line over there.

For #2, the jet pump comes with a few different orifices to regulate flow and back pressure, so you should be able to get it close, then dial it to where you need it with a AFPR.

All in all, I would be happy if it works flawlessly to a half tank or less, which is plenty for 20 min track session.

 

Here is a really good photo from radium:

https://www.radiumauto.com/Assets/Pr...urn_System.png

The idea is to basically replace the fuel sock with a Hydramat, while leaving the temp and fuel level senders intact.

 

There are actually level sensors on both sides of the tank and it takes a total value in reality.

 

I was thinking about this more, and i don't think the stock siphon can keep up with fuel demand in cases of 1/4 tank fuel. If the stock siphon could keep up, then we probably wouldn't have starvation in the first place at 3/4 tank. The return is siphoning from the right side of the tank which is likely full at 3/4 on left hand sweepers, and you eventually drain the reserve in the hangar. Then pop boom goes your motor.

Chet rickerman has a 2 pump/mat solution where he runs a stock fuel pump on the stock wiring as a lift pump, feeding a 2nd hydramat and walbro on the left side of the tank. The walbro he has run by a pump controller. Easy in concept but sounds more difficult in practice and would obviously require a retune