My crankcase pressure issues.
Sep 11, 2015, 02:31 AM
#1
My crankcase pressure issues.
So, like a few other FP DBB turbo owners, I have had the same issues with finding oil in the Compressor housing and all through my IC pipes. So much so, that I’ve had oil clouds puff out of my hood vent when my BOV opens. I have been working for a long time now, trying to figure out why this is happening. I never sent my turbo back but I have talked with FP a few times and my local Performance shop about the common reasons why.
Now onto my setup and a little background of my build. I had my engine Built in the Summer of 2013 By Curt Brown.
Curt 2.0 short block (standard rod length)
Deleted balance shafts and deleted oil squirters
Curt ported Head, supertech valvetrain
GSC S2 camshafts
Curt ported intake manifold with 65mm TB
Curt Ported FP exhaust manifold (had a GT spec for the first year)
ETS 3.5 Intercooler and IC pipes
Works 02 housing and downpipe
HKS 3 inch exhaust
Running Brad Penn 10w40 in the winter and 20w50 in the summer.
Planned on having just a fun street car with a bunch of good parts under the hood.
Running Speed density with a 4 inch intake.
My first FP turbo was the 71 HTA Journal bearing. Great little turbo, never had issues with oil leaks or any issues with the PCV system. Even though I deleted the PCV at first and ran both Valve cover fittings to the Weapon-R catch can (fits in the OEM strut brace) I added a Vent/filter on the back of the can, since I used both hose barbs on the front. Also didn’t recirculate anything to the inlet pipe before the turbo. After running this turbo for a few months I decided I wanted more. So in Febuary 2014, right before FP switched to the SS turbine housing, I bought an FP DBB Red, in the HMI housing and Cast CHRA along with the Oil supply line from the OFH with the .035” restrictor in line filter.
With this turbo, is when my problems all started. Now the turbo made great power. Putting down 470whp and 414wtq on TPG Tunings Mustang dyno. 93 octane @ 30psi.
And like few others, my intake pipe and IC pipes were coated with a ton of oil and I always had problems with random knock/detonation during spool up and at the top of my power band. Nothing crazy, but enough to worry sometimes. I believe that this knock was induced by all the oil being sucked into the engine.
I’ve tried many different PCV setups. I took the weapon-r catch can off and bought the Radium Engineering dual catch can setup, and vented both cans, instead of routing back to the intake mani and turbo inlet tube. Didn’t solve my issue. Oil still leaked in the turbo compressor housing.
After that I thought I needed more venting. So I added more vents. Installed the STM vented dip stick tube and added a AN -6 fitting to the valve cover above the intake cam position sensor. And added a 1 liter baffled catch can from Autobahn 66, which had the 2 new vetting lines ran to this can. Now with 4 vents total. All VTA. This is the first time in a few thousand miles that my turbo didn’t leak at all. My knock count went down, and my car ran really well like this….. But the downside to this setup up was, in about 1200 miles after I added this setup. I found that my 1 liter catch can was so full of oil that is was overflowing out of the top over flow vent. And my radium cans were almost full as well.
So even though this setup worked, I wasn’t happy with the fact I was pushing so much oil into the cans, especially since I want this to be a pretty efficient daily driver.
Up to this point I have never taken any data or pressure readings of my crankscase pressure nor have I talked to many people about this issue. I thought id be able to troubleshoot and fix it myself. But I decided to call FP and talked with Amber, and I learned of a few things they do to relief and control crankcase pressure.
So after that phone call, I seen the new DBB FP turbos come with an oil line from the head, so I started there, and First installed that line, and ditching the one I had from the OFH.
Second, I removed my turbo oil return tube to verify no RTV was block the return oil, and installed 2 new gaskets with No RTV at all.
Third, I rerouted all my venting lines just how Amber recommended.
Installed the OEM PCV, and connected it to the intake manifold, with a Radium Catch can in between.
And the OEM valve cover vent to the turbo inlet pipe with the other Radium catch can.
Now its not just an ordinary hose barb on the intake pipe, I added the Vibrant E-vac fitting. I’ve seen them show interesting results when used in an exhaust pipe to pull vacuum, so I thought I would try the intake pipe, and hopefully suction from the turbo would perform the same task. We will see.
I also installed the STM balance shaft inspection hole breather, with a AN -6 45 degree fitting.
Now, for testing, I decided to cap the vented dipstick line. And cap the added AN -6 on the valve cover. Leaving the balance shaft vent. The reason I did this, is I wanted to collect data on what kind of pressure I was seeing with an OEM style PCV setup. So i have a hose ran into the cabin of the car from the blance shaft hole, and a calibrated 0-15 psi gauge hooked unto it. Kinda primitive but it got the job done. So first tests would be a PCV system as close to stock as possible but with catch cans, and the E-vac fitting in the intake pipe.
And the results: With just the PCV valve and the turbo inlet line hooked up, I was seeing 2-3 psi crankcase pressure under boost (20+ psi). And 0 psi crankcase pressure during idle and cruise, so the PCV is doing its Job really well, but i guess the turbo doesn't suck enough pressure from my engine.
After testing that, I removed the cap from the added AN -6 and ran that hose to the ground for the test. After doing some driving, idle and cruise was unchanged, but under boost I was only seeing 1-1.25 psi! Still enough pressure to cause a DBB turbo to leak but just one added vent relieved 1-1.5 psi. And yes there was oil in the inlet pipe. And to be clear I cleaned all IC pipes, inlet pipe, and intercooler before I started testing.
So in conclusion: On my built engine with 25k miles on it. I have a lot of blow by it seems. Probably worst than most Evo engines out there, even though my compression is still great.
Along with the Radium dual catch can setup, I will be running The Buschur Pro catch can setup too. So the Balance shaft inspection hole fitting and my added AN -6 valve cover vent will route to the Buschur can, and I will have the modified buschur dipstick tube to drain all oil back to the oil pan. So if your counting, I will have a PCV, Turbo inlet line, and 3 Vents (valve cover, Balance shaft hole, and dipstick tube)
As complicated and expensive of route I took in troubleshooting just my turbo leaking oil, and all the reading I’ve done on this Forum following Michael @FP’s posts about this subject, I hope this will help others to solve there cranks case pressure issues as well as mine. I will be updating this thread with results on the added Buchur catch can setup to see if any leaks persist.
Also, a lot of people may ask, why I haven’t just taken my turbo off and send it to FP, and I believe (for now) that my turbo is in perfect working order. Even with roughly 18k miles on it, and after my findings with my tests, it was my setup all along that hindered the cranks case pressure. Especially since I did get the turbo to stop leaking oil at one point in time.
-Tyler
Now onto my setup and a little background of my build. I had my engine Built in the Summer of 2013 By Curt Brown.
Curt 2.0 short block (standard rod length)
Deleted balance shafts and deleted oil squirters
Curt ported Head, supertech valvetrain
GSC S2 camshafts
Curt ported intake manifold with 65mm TB
Curt Ported FP exhaust manifold (had a GT spec for the first year)
ETS 3.5 Intercooler and IC pipes
Works 02 housing and downpipe
HKS 3 inch exhaust
Running Brad Penn 10w40 in the winter and 20w50 in the summer.
Planned on having just a fun street car with a bunch of good parts under the hood.
Running Speed density with a 4 inch intake.
My first FP turbo was the 71 HTA Journal bearing. Great little turbo, never had issues with oil leaks or any issues with the PCV system. Even though I deleted the PCV at first and ran both Valve cover fittings to the Weapon-R catch can (fits in the OEM strut brace) I added a Vent/filter on the back of the can, since I used both hose barbs on the front. Also didn’t recirculate anything to the inlet pipe before the turbo. After running this turbo for a few months I decided I wanted more. So in Febuary 2014, right before FP switched to the SS turbine housing, I bought an FP DBB Red, in the HMI housing and Cast CHRA along with the Oil supply line from the OFH with the .035” restrictor in line filter.
With this turbo, is when my problems all started. Now the turbo made great power. Putting down 470whp and 414wtq on TPG Tunings Mustang dyno. 93 octane @ 30psi.
And like few others, my intake pipe and IC pipes were coated with a ton of oil and I always had problems with random knock/detonation during spool up and at the top of my power band. Nothing crazy, but enough to worry sometimes. I believe that this knock was induced by all the oil being sucked into the engine.
I’ve tried many different PCV setups. I took the weapon-r catch can off and bought the Radium Engineering dual catch can setup, and vented both cans, instead of routing back to the intake mani and turbo inlet tube. Didn’t solve my issue. Oil still leaked in the turbo compressor housing.
After that I thought I needed more venting. So I added more vents. Installed the STM vented dip stick tube and added a AN -6 fitting to the valve cover above the intake cam position sensor. And added a 1 liter baffled catch can from Autobahn 66, which had the 2 new vetting lines ran to this can. Now with 4 vents total. All VTA. This is the first time in a few thousand miles that my turbo didn’t leak at all. My knock count went down, and my car ran really well like this….. But the downside to this setup up was, in about 1200 miles after I added this setup. I found that my 1 liter catch can was so full of oil that is was overflowing out of the top over flow vent. And my radium cans were almost full as well.
So even though this setup worked, I wasn’t happy with the fact I was pushing so much oil into the cans, especially since I want this to be a pretty efficient daily driver.
Up to this point I have never taken any data or pressure readings of my crankscase pressure nor have I talked to many people about this issue. I thought id be able to troubleshoot and fix it myself. But I decided to call FP and talked with Amber, and I learned of a few things they do to relief and control crankcase pressure.
So after that phone call, I seen the new DBB FP turbos come with an oil line from the head, so I started there, and First installed that line, and ditching the one I had from the OFH.
Second, I removed my turbo oil return tube to verify no RTV was block the return oil, and installed 2 new gaskets with No RTV at all.
Third, I rerouted all my venting lines just how Amber recommended.
Installed the OEM PCV, and connected it to the intake manifold, with a Radium Catch can in between.
And the OEM valve cover vent to the turbo inlet pipe with the other Radium catch can.
Now its not just an ordinary hose barb on the intake pipe, I added the Vibrant E-vac fitting. I’ve seen them show interesting results when used in an exhaust pipe to pull vacuum, so I thought I would try the intake pipe, and hopefully suction from the turbo would perform the same task. We will see.
I also installed the STM balance shaft inspection hole breather, with a AN -6 45 degree fitting.
Now, for testing, I decided to cap the vented dipstick line. And cap the added AN -6 on the valve cover. Leaving the balance shaft vent. The reason I did this, is I wanted to collect data on what kind of pressure I was seeing with an OEM style PCV setup. So i have a hose ran into the cabin of the car from the blance shaft hole, and a calibrated 0-15 psi gauge hooked unto it. Kinda primitive but it got the job done. So first tests would be a PCV system as close to stock as possible but with catch cans, and the E-vac fitting in the intake pipe.
And the results: With just the PCV valve and the turbo inlet line hooked up, I was seeing 2-3 psi crankcase pressure under boost (20+ psi). And 0 psi crankcase pressure during idle and cruise, so the PCV is doing its Job really well, but i guess the turbo doesn't suck enough pressure from my engine.
After testing that, I removed the cap from the added AN -6 and ran that hose to the ground for the test. After doing some driving, idle and cruise was unchanged, but under boost I was only seeing 1-1.25 psi! Still enough pressure to cause a DBB turbo to leak but just one added vent relieved 1-1.5 psi. And yes there was oil in the inlet pipe. And to be clear I cleaned all IC pipes, inlet pipe, and intercooler before I started testing.
So in conclusion: On my built engine with 25k miles on it. I have a lot of blow by it seems. Probably worst than most Evo engines out there, even though my compression is still great.
Along with the Radium dual catch can setup, I will be running The Buschur Pro catch can setup too. So the Balance shaft inspection hole fitting and my added AN -6 valve cover vent will route to the Buschur can, and I will have the modified buschur dipstick tube to drain all oil back to the oil pan. So if your counting, I will have a PCV, Turbo inlet line, and 3 Vents (valve cover, Balance shaft hole, and dipstick tube)
As complicated and expensive of route I took in troubleshooting just my turbo leaking oil, and all the reading I’ve done on this Forum following Michael @FP’s posts about this subject, I hope this will help others to solve there cranks case pressure issues as well as mine. I will be updating this thread with results on the added Buchur catch can setup to see if any leaks persist.
Also, a lot of people may ask, why I haven’t just taken my turbo off and send it to FP, and I believe (for now) that my turbo is in perfect working order. Even with roughly 18k miles on it, and after my findings with my tests, it was my setup all along that hindered the cranks case pressure. Especially since I did get the turbo to stop leaking oil at one point in time.
-Tyler
Sep 11, 2015, 07:49 AM
#2
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
My crankcase pressure issues.
You need 10an on the driver side going to the intake pipe, and custom setup on the pcv side. There is a whole thread on this stickied in here..
Sep 11, 2015, 09:46 AM
#4
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
It's not going to change anything unless you get the valvecover fittings flowing more by making them bigger. I've been through it already lol. I had -6 fittings from STM going to radium cans, and it wasn't enough. I upgraded the PCV to full -6, and the driver side to full -10. Now it seems to be fixed.
Last edited by letsgetthisdone; Sep 11, 2015 at 10:07 AM.
Sep 11, 2015, 10:08 AM
#6
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
You can, its easy. The radium can itself is threaded for -10 AN. So you just need male/male 10an unions..
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Sep 15, 2015, 12:53 PM
#9
I'm in the same sort of boat.
Though I have blocked off the PCV on the back, and have 2 -8AN lines going into a liter catch can with 2 big 2" vents on it... still get a good bit of oil in the can.. I bought the -6AN for the PCV port, going to put that to a can and then run it back to the intake.
Later if that doesn't help enough I will make the -8's, -10's sinc emy liter can actually has -10AN fittings on it and my line is -10.. Hopefully that will fix it.
anyone keeping score that's currently 2 -8AN lines off the driver side of the valve cover, with the pcv blocked off isn't enough flow to keep it from blowing a good amount of oil
(stock evo 4 block and turbo)
Though I have blocked off the PCV on the back, and have 2 -8AN lines going into a liter catch can with 2 big 2" vents on it... still get a good bit of oil in the can.. I bought the -6AN for the PCV port, going to put that to a can and then run it back to the intake.
Later if that doesn't help enough I will make the -8's, -10's sinc emy liter can actually has -10AN fittings on it and my line is -10.. Hopefully that will fix it.
anyone keeping score that's currently 2 -8AN lines off the driver side of the valve cover, with the pcv blocked off isn't enough flow to keep it from blowing a good amount of oil
(stock evo 4 block and turbo)
Last edited by cerevo; Sep 15, 2015 at 12:54 PM. Reason: don't think they are actually 3" vents on the can.. just 2"
Sep 15, 2015, 01:06 PM
#10
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Where is it blowing oil from? the Valvecover to the catch can? One of your ports doesn't have very good baffling, which is likely the cause..
Sep 15, 2015, 01:38 PM
#11
yeah, from the VC to the catch can.
I'm not the one who put the AN lines on there so I couldn't tell you, yet.
I'll be pulling the cover off soon to check it out and see what I can do to alleviate if one of them isn't under the baffle.
I haven't looked but has anyone else added baffling to the valve cover?
I'm not the one who put the AN lines on there so I couldn't tell you, yet.
I'll be pulling the cover off soon to check it out and see what I can do to alleviate if one of them isn't under the baffle.
I haven't looked but has anyone else added baffling to the valve cover?
Sep 15, 2015, 01:50 PM
#12
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
You really can't since its magnesium. The baffling in place is for the stock ports. When you add an additional port to the driver side that mirrors the original port driver side port, that new port does not have good baffling.
Sep 15, 2015, 10:22 PM
#14
So after having a -6 AN PCV line, 2 VC -6 vents and a -6 vent from the balance shaft hole, I'm still getting Oil in the compressor Inlet from the turbo leaking. Now it's not a lot, and I know my turbo had some miles on it. But it's pretty frustrating. My crankcase pressure as measured by a calibrated gauge was about .5 psi under load. Yet oil still leaks. From what I've learned over the past week. I could send my turbo back for a rebuild. Most likely will leak NO oil for awhile but end up in the same boat as I am now. I hope my info is helpful to you guys but I'm not sure if I'll keep my FP red much longer. Also the Vibrant E-vac fitting def made a difference VS just a nipple fitting off the inlet tube. But not enough for my setup to stop leaking. If your looking for that last piece to the puzzle in keeping crankcase pressure down, the E-vac may be your key though.
Sep 16, 2015, 08:01 AM
#15
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
My crankcase pressure issues.
I would go for a rebuild, and upgrade one of the valve over lines to -6, and delete the balance shaft fitting. You get a lot of oil out of that fitting. I would he surprised if the oil in your intake is from your crankcase vents, and not the turbo.