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I'm finally ready to put my final build together, and as is usual, I'm now in a time crunch to meet my Feb 20th deadline. I've got everything else on its way (including my rebuilt TC with Wavetrac!), but now I'm stuck on the turbo again. I had originally planned on a Blouch 2.0XTR, but they are telling me it's going to take 2+ weeks, and there is nothing they can do about that time line - so that option is now off the table.
The only stock location turbos I can get quickly then are ATP's (ATP are like 20 mins from where I live and they have the Garrett's in stock). Anyway, so I'm down to choosing between the following:
GTX3076R
GTX3576R
GTX3582R
Yesterday I planned on the 3076R, but now I'm not so sure. I want something that won't run out of steam, but I am very lag sensitive (road racing build - not drag - so boost has to come early). The engine is a built 2.3L so has more low down torque to help, but still, after reading all the posts on the subject here, I'm still not sure. Many of the posts here talk about 2.0 pump gas with those turbos, but I'm doing 2.3L on E85. My power goal is 550AWHP (a little less is okay, but ideally still >500AWHP), and I want it to make that power comfortably with boost coming as early as possible.
Anyway, any comments appreciated. My ideal would be a dyno graphs showing each of those on a 2.3L stroker on E85...
ATP got back to me and recommended the 3576R. Still not sure tho since it seems like it won't reach full boost until well past 4000RPM.
I guess on track that's probably not a big deal. Might affect street drivability, but the extra low end torque the 2.3L is providing, might make it just fine.
I guess I can always swap it later if it doesn't work for me.. expensive experimentation tho!
For a road race car you want to keep back pressure down.The 100mm crank will have too much backpressure on the Gen 1 GTX3076R IMO. I'd steer towards a T3 TS kit with GTX3582R Gen 1. A mivec 2.0 car sees about 20 psi at 4000 with that combo and goes well to 8000.
The New GTX line is bigger/better but the results I posted above were from a Gen 1 GTX 3582R.
For a road race car you want to keep back pressure down.The 100mm crank will have too much backpressure on the Gen 1 GTX3076R IMO. I'd steer towards a T3 TS kit with GTX3582R Gen 1. A mivec 2.0 car sees about 20 psi at 4000 with that combo and goes well to 8000.
The New GTX line is bigger/better but the results I posted above were from a Gen 1 GTX 3582R.
You'd go with the 3582R over the 3576R? The lag seems like it would be high (ATP say around 400rpm later on the 82R). Also, a T3 kit would need a tubular manifold, right? I need to stick to stock looking for now, so that isn't an option...
Have you looked at the newer gen2 gtx turbos? 3071 and 3076 support 650 and 750 respectively.
I would pair one of those with a smaller twin scroll housing.
You mention your power goal is >500whp, where exactly do you want the power to sit ? If you want up to 550whp then a GTX3076 will do the job but you'll need to push it hard to make the peak number.
The GTX3576 will do 600 whp on E85 but as ATP advised have additional lag.
My BIG reservation with these so called Gen 2 GTX turbos are the turbine wheels. As it stands the 76mm Gen 1 "X" compressor wheel outflows the GT30 turbine, so although on paper and in marketing speak the GTX3076 is a 600 (or in Gen 2 trim, 650hp turbo), in the real world the turbine flow chokes at ~550whp on a GT30.
That is the sole reason Garrett released the GTX3576R a little after the GTX series debuted.
The stock location aspect of the bolt-in ATP's are nice, but they don't seem to have the spool or power per mm of the "old" Forced Performance line-up.
As a complete left-field (and pricier option) the Driven or Full-Race EFR7163 kits look to offer unbeatable response and 550whp potential.
I built a road racing Evo with a 2.2L, S3's and a T4 twin scroll 1.04 GTX3582R on pump gas at 26psi. Made 509whp. Lag was (to me) nearly non-existent. To put in perspective, I live in Seattle, so lots of hills etc. I went from a stock 2.0L with a green to the combo mentioned above and noticed almost no loss of bottom end, around town it felt the same.
You can find my dyno sheet under the user name EvilTechnology.
I've done 488whp on a mustang dyno (calibrated like bushcurs) on a first gen gt no x 3076. When I dyno'd 547whp dynojet at ER I put down 424whp on this same mustang dyno.
I will be further maxing out this setup by going to a .82 TS niresist housing vs the .63 SS that I have now. After that i'll be switching over to the 3071gen 2 gtx. No reason to go gt35 as you'll need clutch and other assorted non DD friendly mods to get the most out of it.
Make sure you get the GEN 2 GTX if your buying it now from ATP. With your setup i'd be getting the cast FP manifold and port the hell out of the turbine to stay stock appearing and TS.
Regarding the gtx3576 i've not seen many people making better numbers on them.
I"ve run all three on a 2L and there is NO reason to run a GTX3076r as the GTX3576r will spool the same and make 40+hp more. I've posted this data so just do a search. If you just want 550hp E85 then run the GTX3576r on a twinscroll aftermarket manifold with the ATP 1.06 AR T4 TS turbine housing. Personally, with the new GEN II compressor wheel designs I would run the GEN II GTX3576r since they flow more and wheel size is comparable. With a twinscroll manifold and the before mentioned turbine housing on a 2.3L with E85 I suspect you can hit 30psi by 3700rpm in 3rd. The GTX3582r will cost you ~500rpm in spool vs the GTX3576r as I have shown below.
I"ve run all three on a 2L and there is NO reason to run a GTX3076r as the GTX3576r will spool the same and make 40+hp more. I've posted this data so just do a search. If you just want 550hp E85 then run the GTX3576r on a twinscroll aftermarket manifold with the ATP 1.06 AR T4 TS turbine housing. Personally, with the new GEN II compressor wheel designs I would run the GEN II GTX3576r since they flow more and wheel size is comparable. With a twinscroll manifold and the before mentioned turbine housing on a 2.3L with E85 I suspect you can hit 30psi by 3700rpm in 3rd. The GTX3582r will cost you ~500rpm in spool vs the GTX3576r as I have shown below.
Thanks for all the responses guys!
240Z TwinTurbo - when you say "aftermarket manifold", do you mean something like a Buschur ported stock manifold, or FP stock-looking high flow manifold? I assume not tubular stock replacement (that would eliminate the stock look!). As for the turbine, wouldn't the increased A/R affect responsiveness? I guess it's still a compromise of power to response, so maybe the 1.06 would be fine (I think "as-is" the kit comes with a 0.94 A/R).
Oh wait, I just noticed... You said use a T4 TS housing, so that would need a tubular manifold (been trying to avoid that). I have now ordered the kit ATP-VEVO-130, which is the 3576R with stock frame - mostly for expedience right now.
After my Feb 20th event, I will look at switching out the turbine housing for a T4 style and maybe go with the tubular for better flow. Although I didn't want to go there, I may have no choice since the stock style log manifold is probably going to be a major restriction.
From what I recall you never pushed the gtx3576 hard enough to "max it out"
Originally Posted by 240Z TwinTurbo
I"ve run all three on a 2L and there is NO reason to run a GTX3076r as the GTX3576r will spool the same and make 40+hp more. I've posted this data so just do a search. If you just want 550hp E85 then run the GTX3576r on a twinscroll aftermarket manifold with the ATP 1.06 AR T4 TS turbine housing. Personally, with the new GEN II compressor wheel designs I would run the GEN II GTX3576r since they flow more and wheel size is comparable. With a twinscroll manifold and the before mentioned turbine housing on a 2.3L with E85 I suspect you can hit 30psi by 3700rpm in 3rd. The GTX3582r will cost you ~500rpm in spool vs the GTX3576r as I have shown below.
Gah, I ordered it, but now I'm told it's a Gen-1 not a Gen-2. Apparently they don't have a bolt-on Gen-2 available for the Evo 8/9 platform yet. Later to upgrade to Gen-2 would need a whole new CHRA and compressor wheel/housing. The turbine side stays the same, but at that point may as well buy the whole new turbo (and sell this one).
Feb 7, 2017, 02:42 PM
