Three bolts and red lock tight

You just turn then using the bolt that holds the cam gear to the cam? Don't you worry about losening that bolt? I actually went to the trouble of removing the valve cover and putting a big a$$ed adjustable wrench on the cam itself to avoid that possibility. I wasn't talking about pulling the timing cover off taking a long time... it was the valve cover I was talking about

Keith

 

Ohh no wonder To answer your question, no. That cam gear bolt torque spec is 65-70 ft lbs, you should not need any where near that much torque to move the cams, 10-20 ft lbs max, usually much less. The inner cam wheel also uses a locking pin so the cam and wheel cannot move independantly. So if by some remote chance your were actually turning the bolt you would see/feel the bolt/wrench move but your cam position indicator would not move. Plus we are only talking about moving a couple of degrees here.
For all the reasons mentioned above, I think it is perfectly safe to just move tha cams by turning the outside bolt.

Lock tight on the cam gear adjustment locking bolts is a good idea, once you are fairly certain that you are done adjusting them. With all of the adusting I have done, I wind up checking these bolts quite often, they have never come close to loosening, so...

SSKILLA, I don't understand why you would invest in adjustable cam gears and then state that your not going to adjust them?

Are you asking these questions to me or some other members?

This post has been here long enough and has enough views that I would think that at least some of the "tuners" have seen it? Not one of them has jumped on here and said that this adjustment is dangerous or totally without merit.
I have provided test data, it has been independantly tested by two other well known members. We have acceleration, dyno, and 1/4 mile test results. I am not sure what more you could want?

I am not selling anything here, this is just somthing I stumbled accross from my own back yard tunning. Keep in mind that with different modifications/components the results could be completely different. I just felt this was worth sharing and wanted to get more feedback to try and better understand whats going on.

The mid range/spool up benifits are the only aspect that is still questionable in my mind. Hopefully the G-tech will help sort that out.

I keep thinking of an old well known quote "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it"

 

Sorry it took so long for me to post my 1/4 mile times but here goes.


Cams set -3/-3(93 octane) 20psi

60ft 1.883

1/8 8.171

mph 87.64

1/4 12.64

mph 110.53


Cams set -4/-1(93 octane)20psi

60ft 1.781

1/8 8.046

mph 87.77

1/4 12.521

mph 111.67


Cams set -4/-1 (100 octane)20psi

60ft 1.774

1/8 7.889

mph 86.96

1/4 12.235

mph 114.69


I have yet to try -3/-3 on 100 octane, if I do I will keep you guys updated.

 

i got them for show not realy for adjusting........so yeah they look good and i felt like spending the money since i was going to have that area of the car apart i might aswell do it ....

thats the only reason y i got them ....this info is just getting me curios ........is there a problem with asking questions???

 

Absolutly not, that's what this forum is all about IMO. I thought I was trying to answer your questions? I think you may have misunderstood my attempt at light hearted humor.

I tried this, it made the car run poorly and made less power.

Ok, see I would have never figured that out, but I am more of go than show guy so... What ever makes you happy.

Kind regards,

Eric

 

yea, and are cam gears really showie? or whatever.....?

and would it hurt the show to have them set right? lol

-shahul

 

Thanks for the update! Impressive times, a little more boost with a good run and your in the elevens! Amazing how close you and TXEVO are on pump gas.

 

First of all, Id like to thank Silver Surfer for taking the time to sit down to "school" people on the do's/dont's and his results of his cam gear testing. Ive got my HKS's 272's on order along with a couple other goodies. I can only imagine what my car will run, it's been a 12.76@110 with NOTHING more than Buschur stage one, even stock clutch. So I can only hope to see 11's with these next stages of mods.

-John

 

Silver Surfer, first, thanks for the thread. The data and discussion are excellent and the best I have seen yet in the Forum!

Now for my side note--and I don't mean to hijack the thread, just value the input of those in this thread. My Evo has only an X-Flash right now with sustained 1.5Bar boost, but I plan on upgrades to help get more air and thus more power thru my pump (engine). I'm planning on a turbo-back exhaust, 272/272 cams, and adjustable cam gears. I am thinking of doing the cams and gears FIRST and then the exhaust about 6 months later as my $$$ is thin. I am wondering if you think that with the new cams and gears in place if leaving on the stock exhaust (and thus stock backpressure) will make more of a problem for idle running/smoothness issues. Not sure if anyone has done this yet but still am contemplating it . . . ?
Any help or advice good or bad is appreciated. ;-)

 

Hi guys,

Silver Surfer, guess you're getting tired about all the positive comments on your thread? It is excellent so I guess you just have to take that

So to my question, I’m just in the process of ordering a set of HKS 272’s and a pair of Fidanza adjustable wheels and I was wondering a bit about the power aspect here. I presume, as with lots of other things, that there is a compromise between power and good idle? Your -4/-1 suggestion seam to be more towards good idle even though it obviously gives more power as well. During your testing did you find a setting that gave more power but less good idle? I’m just about to install a Motec engine management system which is fully adjustable so I was thinking that it should be possible to maybe use a more aggressive cam setting and sort the idle issues with the Motec? To be perfectly honest I would actually prefer a slightly rough idle showing that this is not an ordinary stock EVO

 

Sorry but another offtopic question for Silver surfer. With cams set up the way you recommend, would long distance gas mileage go up or down?

Thanks,
Bobby

 

Hmm, You should still get some benefits from the cams, the stock exhaust system is not all that bad as far as stock systems go. I don't think anyone has tried doing the cams first so... I don't think it will cause problems with idle, if anything it should help in that area. The reason the idle is poor with cams is because of too much overlap, some of the intake charge goes right out the exhaust. That is why you need to add more fuel at idle to make up for the loss. With more back pressure this effect should lesson some what. Your turbo spool and top end is what will suffer with a more restrictive exhaust system. How much? I guess you will find out .

Thanks, I really do appricieate all the kind words, I just don't have a lot of free time so I try to stick to the meat and potatos if you know what I mean. Plus I hate having to wade through pages of "hey what are you doing Saturday..." on a good tech thread...

I have been very busy lately with work etc, plus my car has some drivetrain issues (TC whine, fourth gear syncro) so I have not been testing lately. I have decided to upgrade to the MR version when it comes out later this year, so I am contemplating the lowest cost drivetrain repair (stock clutch, no front LSD, etc) and then putting the car back to stock in preperation for a trade in.

Actually with the stock turbo, no. With a bigger less restrictive aftermarket turbo, you can benefit from the increased overlap to make more power on the top end. But with the stock turbo the increased overlap just seems to make the idle worse with no measurable gains in power, in fact it seems to make less.

No, but I still have not tested every possible combination either. I read on a another thread were some one saw the HKS car had there cam gears set to -2/+1, same offset only from a different point. I have been wanting to try these settings but just have not had the time yet.

With the stock turbo I just don't think there is much point going to aggressive with the cam gear settings. Now if your going with a bigger turbo, that's a whole other story. I think the 264's will work just as well (maybe better in some regards) for a stock turbo, but if you think you might upgrade your turbo down the road, the 272's can work just as well and give you more room to grow. I went with the 272's mainly because that was all I could find at the time, I originally wanted the 264's, although I am not sorry that I got the 272's. If I had a choice between 264's and 272's right now, it would be a tough decision but I would still go with the 272's, both cams have certain advantages, it all depends on what your goals are.

Just lean out the idle mixture, it will idle nice and crappy just like you want Keep in mind that with the 272's and these cam gear adjustments, you still need to add fuel at idle, if you want a smooth better than stock idle. Your idle A/F needs to be at least mid/low 13's, stock idle A/F is mid/high 14's. If you run the stock A/F even with these cam gear settings it will be very lumpy, loopy, whatever they call it.

I haven't really been to concerned with fuel consumption, but other than the idle fuel mixture all previous part throttle fuel mixture settings seem to work just fine with these cams. So I would not expect to see a significant difference in mileage, but I have not really been checking either so....

 

Hey Siler Surfer, do you work?

Seriously though, nice information you have here. When I finally get around to the cams I think I will try these settings, it seems evident that they make a difference.

My comment was the richer condition at lower RPM with these cam settings on the dyno. One might think that at lower RPM you are pulling in less fresh air because the air demand is lower and the car is not moving so in general the air is going to be hotter and less dense. Therefore the car will appear richer then if it was moving down the road and getting good clean air. Up top it is pulling in sooo much air that it doesn't have as much of an impact.

 

Just wanted to send a huge thanks out to Silver Surfer for posting this thread. I just installed HKS 272/272 cams and had them set to -4/-1. Car runs and idles like a champ! I've had other Evo owners ask me for my "secret" in getting my car to idle as smoothly as it does with the new cams. Of course they were referred to this thread.

Also, when I did my first baseline dyno runs with this setup, they power/torque curve was already very close to perfect. Just required a minor amount of tuning to smooth out two dips in the curve ... the rest was gravy.

l8r)

PS.: Why hasn't this thread been stickied?

 

Did you baseline at 0/0 and get a dyno sheet and then at -4/-1 to see the difference?