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4g63 shortblock build 1000hp capable

 
Old Aug 29, 2018, 11:53 AM
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4g63 shortblock build 1000hp capable

I decided to start a thread on my shortblock build. Searching around I havenít found much good info on high horsepower shortblock building. After speaking with a guy I know who has blown his fair share of engines I realized most folks are confused on a lot of things like bearing clearances and piston/ring clearances. Even if your not doing your own assembly you still need to know these things as you will need to pass things along to your machine shop and or engine builder. Many shops will just set things up with the factory clearances and thatís a No Bueno garranteed failure for these big horsepower builds. I have also found a lot of confusion about oil viscosity, people say I use this or I use that, but really have no good reason as to why or donít seem to know how to choose the proper oil.

First a list of parts used for the build.

4g63 block .5mm overbore with a full fill.
CP pistons, horizontal gas ports, 1mm, 1.2mm, ring pack
JE Thick wall wrist pins
Brian Crower steel H beam rods, 156mm, ARP +625 bolts
Manley billet crank, 88mm stroke
modified stock oil pan
King pmax black bearings
GSC balance shaft delete
ATI super Damper
English Racing oil pump drive sprocket
H11 head studs
Boostin Perf copper head gasket
Redline 60wt race oil (20w-60)

List of clearances used

.003Ē rod & main bearings
​​​​.011Ē~ .015Ē rod side clearance
​​​​​​.004Ē crankshaft end play
.0055Ē piston to wall clearance
​​​​​​.024Ē top ring end gap
.027Ē bottom ring end gap

Special machine work performed

Block decked parallel to crankshaft bore
Block line honed (for tight bearing crush)
Block machined for receiver groove, head has wire o-ring.


Block assembly notes

First thing I did was to check all my piston and rod weights, they should all be within one gram. Then I had the machine shop check the balance on the crankshaft and flywheel. It was very close according to them but itís always good to check
Next was to measure all the journals and record the sizes. While inspecting the crankshaft I found the chamfer on most of the oil holes had a razor sharp edge. This has been known to cause crankshafts to crack so I took the liberty too remove the sharp edge and polish it.




After filling the block it was off to get the machine work done.After filling the block it was off to get the machine work done. FYI never fill a block after you have had machine work done, when the filler sets up it can cause some distortions so always fill first. I know Iíll probably get the usual ďwhy did you fill the block? You donít need too!Ē Well thatís all personal opinions. IMO a half filled block is a waste of time. The cylinders distort and crack at the very top of the bore so a half fill is useless. Running E85 you donít need a block full of water just a good oil cooler. Yes it will be street driven.
I prefer to hone my own block and always use a torque plate too do so.




Piston clearnce was set to .0055Ē which might seem high to some but you need more clearance with a filled block.
I use a 280 grit followed by a fine plateau stone. Always specify to your machinist that you want a torque plate and plateau hone.
CP has instructions you can print out and hand over to your machinist, probably the best route.

Currently if you want gas ported off the shelf pistons you need to go with wiseco. You can custom order a set of CP with the lateral gas ports or thereís a tool available
from goodson that you can use to do it yourself.
once you start pushing boost above 40psi you probably should have gas ported pistons otherwise crankcase pressures get out of control.

Stay tuned more to come
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Old Aug 29, 2018, 10:02 PM
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jrp has some nice pistons available peep them
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 12:07 AM
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 12:08 AM
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Thank you for this!
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 06:37 AM
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Teal2nnr View Post
Thank you for this!
The pleasure is all mine

Just a note on gas ported pistons, vertical gas ports are a no go on a street car, they will plug up with carbon deposits. Horizontal gas ports are a better choice for a street build or even a track car that wonít be torn apart frequently. Goodson makes a fixture for $100 that works great for doing lateral gas porting. Just make sure you order the correct one as they offer different sizes for different ring thicknesses. I opted to do ten lateral ports per piston which is the standard number for a fairly small bore engine.

Ok now letís talk a little about proper engine clearances. This subject is rarely talked about and it seems like most builders are unwilling to share knowledge about this very important information. I cannot stress enough how important this is, it seems like most think that stock or close to stock clearance is fine for almost any build, well thatís crazy talk and is probably one of the biggest causes of engine failures next to poor tuning. Even if your building only a 650hp build its imperative to open up the clearances somewhat to allow for flexing and heat expansion. Lots of things come into play here including but not limited too, engine rpm, engine stroke, reciprocating weight, total horsepower, main web flex, crankshaft flex, rod distortion, and the most important oil viscosity used.
The 4g63 has a very strong block as long as the crankshaft bore is straight there is very little block distortion. The stock crank is strong but flexes quite a bit above 700hp and 8500 rpm. Some have been able to make the stock 88mm crank live at horsepower levels around 1000hp, but the clearances they run are upwards of .004Ē thatís 4 times the stock clearance. See what Iím getting at?
Another point I would stress is the line bore on most 4g63ís is horrible from the factory. I have never seen a good one yet, every one is out! Thatís why they have the bearing sizes stamped into the oil pan rail, so you mix and match different bearing shells to get the proper clearances. Get the SOB line honed period! Donít save money thinking youíll be ok.
Ok on to oil viscosity. Everybody knows this is how thick the oil is, but a lot of folks donít seem to put the correlation between viscosity and engine clearances? In a nutshell engine clearances dictate what oil you will use in that engine. Newer engines run very low viscosity oils because they are put together with very tight clearances. There are some advantages to this and low friction is the main reason. They can get away with doing this because manufacturing tolerances & machining finishes are much better from production facilities nowadays. Also the crankshafts, blocks, etc. are engineered much better and donít really flex much at all at factory power levels. Heck even nascar motors run insanely tight clearances but they also use crazy over engineered parts. Why you say? Well fuel mileage being numero uno.
Ok you get the point.
General rules for 4g63 clearances are,
factory clearance = factory recommended oil.
.0015Ē~.002Ē bearing clearances 10w-40 oil (600hp with the stock crank)
.002Ē~.003Ē bearing clearance 20w-50 oil (600hp+ with stock crank)
Remember tho a 600hp motor that revs 9000rpm will need more clearance.

Almost forgot to say GET AN OIL PRESSURE GAUGE!!!!
i canít tell you how many big horsepower cars I have seen without a gauge, thatís just CRAY CRAY


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Old Aug 30, 2018, 09:15 AM
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Ok moving on. Setting the piston to wall clearance. Always use the piston manufacturer recommendations for size and where exactly to measure the piston. I added .001” because my block is filled. More heat = more clearance. I use an inside mic but check the inside mic with the micrometer actually used to measure the pistons. Just in case there’s any deviation between micrometers.





I’m running .0055” skirt clearance.

The next step that I made was to groove the block and head for what they call a “double O-ring” setup. This isn’t always needed but above 850hp I wouldn’t leave anything to chance.
The groove in the head holds the .041” stainless wire and is .040 wide x .025” deep , the receiver groove in the block is .060 wide x .010deep.



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Old Aug 30, 2018, 09:20 AM
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 09:27 AM
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Nevermind. Found answer in post#5. Lol
Thanks for writing this up! I have not found one person that gives away their clearance info... Until now!

Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Aug 30, 2018 at 09:42 AM.
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 09:48 AM
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BHJ makes a really nice tool for doing this, it eliminates the error of the grooves not lining up if they were cut on a milling machine. Measure twice and cut once is your best approach here. I’m using a .062” copper head gasket, if it was thinner there would be different cut depths on the grooves to prevent from damaging the gasket.
Boostin performance also offers this service if your wanting to go this route.

OK now it’s time to start mocking up your block, but before you begin get out the garden hose and a bucket of soapy water!
Take the oil galley plug out of the back of the motor, it’s the female hex plug behind where the flywheel is located. Now go to Walmart and get an all calibers gun cleaning kit. Use the wire brushs included in the kit to scrub that main oil gallery and the smaller passage going up to the deck of the block. Also clean those squirter holes too.
I use one of those brushes for cleaning tall drinking glasses on the rest of the engine. Purple Power in a spray bottle works well also. When your satisfied blow everything out with compressed air spray WD40 everywhere but especially in the bores to prevent rust.

ok your next step is to get ahold of some “lint free” rags. Not those red or blue shop rags won’t do, they leave crazy amounts of crap behind. Don’t believe me? Wipe down a fresh cut cylinder block then take a magnifying glass too it.

My point is any little spec of dirt in the system can cause catastrophic failure here.

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Old Aug 30, 2018, 11:54 AM
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Nice work 2winscroll! I look forward to more posts. I noticed that you are using a Manley billet crank for this build. I used one in mine, but only because I knew I would stay under 800hp. Since you are going 1000+ hp, have you considered a K1 or Winberg crank for longevity or do you believe that it's more about the tune and proper clearances than the manufacturing process? Your rod ratio is good, which will help any crank live longer.
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Old Aug 30, 2018, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FI>NA View Post
jrp has some nice pistons available peep them
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Old Aug 31, 2018, 05:22 AM
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Thank you for this thread.

As someone who also prefers to hone their own builds, I haven't found anything about clearances other than chatting with builders.

I will look forward to updates.
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Old Aug 31, 2018, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Project_Broke View Post
Thank you for this thread.

As someone who also prefers to hone their own builds, I haven't found anything about clearances other than chatting with builders.

I will look forward to updates.
Love your handle ďProject BrokeĒ thatís awsome! I like breaking **** too, fixing not so much.

Wow those are some sexy pistons! Very nice! I like how the are ready to run. On the CPís you need to radius the intake valve relief because of the sharp edge it leaves on the corner of the piston top.

Pal Iím not worried at all about the Manley Billet crank holding up. It will easily handle 1000hp. Yes a Weinberg is the ultimate but not necessary IMO. Iím also not convinced that the K1 is actually stronger. The only failures I have seen emanated from the razor sharp edge on the oiling holes. Removing and polishing the edge should prevent the failures.


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Old Aug 31, 2018, 07:12 AM
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Ok time to start assembly. First get those oil squirters installed. Then get your crankshaft ready by double checking your oil holes for sharp edges. I wasn’t happy with the surface finish on the journals so I cut strips of 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper and wrapped it around the journals for a final polish. Use a little water for lubrication when polishing. After polishing break out that gun cleaning kit again and use the 22 caliber brush to scrub out the oil passages with soapy water then blow them out. I had already measured my bearing clearances so I knew the crank was at the clearance I wanted. I had also already installed the bearing shells in the mains & rods and measured those too. If your using plastigauge then I would assemble without polishing the crank because you might need to have it polished on a machine to remove some material for proper clearance. A quick note on bearing measurements, always measure the bearing bore in the center of the cap. Bearings are tapered and the clearance at the parting line is always slightly more.
When installing the bearing shells I clean the bores and shells with lint free rags and brake cleaner, they MUST be free of any oil or dirt on the crushed sides. I use Klotz assembly lube, it’s sticky and won’t easily wash out.
With the shells in the block & cap now apply assembly lube. Install the thrust bearings in the center main and drop in the crank. It should spin easily by hand. Install the main saddle at half torque. Now it time to check you crankshaft end play. You’ll need a magnetic base indicator set up on the nose of the crank (see pic).


Use a screwdriver to gently move the crankshaft forward and backward, you want a minimum of .002” end play. With heavier oils I like to see .004” end play. Mine was .0015” so I had to use an oil stone and WD40 to remove some material from the thrust bearings. Always remove material from the back side of the bearing not the wearing surfaces.


I removed enough to get .004” end play.

Once you have it where you want go ahead and torque down the main cap per whomevers fasteners your using.



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Old Aug 31, 2018, 10:40 AM
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The attention to detail is amazing. Thank you for making this thread.
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