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What's up guys, hows it going? Sorry if this has been asked previously on this site, I'm just new on here and I wanted to ask a few things. Thanks in advanced.
So to starts off, I have a fully build motor on my 8 and I am running an FP black turbo on a stock ported manifold. Made just a little over 500 when I maxed out my fuel pump. I got a new one and I was going to dyno it again and push the power even more. The thing is that I'm running an MHI exhaust housing on it with a Turbosmart IWG. My question, is the IWG going to regulate good enough above 600 hp? As in no boost spikes or anything above let's say 30 psi or more?
I've talked to many people and they've said to me that I should ditch the IWG and go to an EWG cause it's way better to regulate boost and stuff. So that's when I searched and saw the FP Black SS housing. I've done a little research and yes I know it adds more lag like about 500rpm more but i don't really mind it. And also I was going to ditch the stock manifold and get a tubular one (was thinking about an ETS 1.5" runner one?)
Oh and also I want a hood dump so bad though!!!
so what do you guys think? 600+hp on an MHI with an o2 dump or should I go with the SS housing? I just don't want to have problems regulating boost for those power levels. (And also the hood dump. Haha.)
For me, I ran a internally wasegated( non turbosmart) fpblk on a mhi housing and anything over 30psi spiked forsure. If your looking at 600hp (on e85 I assume) I would recommend external gate. Under that, a ts internal may work. But to get in the 600 range your probably going to be in the 40psi range.
Go SS o2 housing and then recirculate it back into the exhaust stream. The SS hot side will open up the power tremendously. On stock block 93 octane I made 560 whp and stoped it there because I needed to keep wtq in the safe zone. I was boosting 28 psi by 4750 RPM’s in 3rd gear.
I hate loud exhausts, even when WOT. Unfortunately for myself, I had he external dump tube. So from my experience and preference recommend getting the STM or MAP recirculating downpipe. Unless you drove in a car with an external dump and are ok with it, I would highly advise to steer away from dumping to atmosphere. Dont rely on online video’s as its extremely difficult to get a good understanding what is tolerable from online videos.
Guys have made 650 on an FP red with the MHI housing, you can do 600 on a black for sure. As to how well your actuator will regulate boost will be determined by the spring you've got in it. Should have at least a 22psi spring, 25 would probably be better.
Go SS o2 housing and then recirculate it back into the exhaust stream. The SS hot side will open up the power tremendously. On stock block 93 octane I made 560 whp and stoped it there because I needed to keep wtq in the safe zone. I was boosting 28 psi by 4750 RPM’s in 3rd gear.
I hate loud exhausts, even when WOT. Unfortunately for myself, I had he external dump tube. So from my experience and preference recommend getting the STM or MAP recirculating downpipe. Unless you drove in a car with an external dump and are ok with it, I would highly advise to steer away from dumping to atmosphere. Dont rely on online video’s as its extremely difficult to get a good understanding what is tolerable from online videos.
dang not bad man, especially on stock block and 93.
I don't have much of a loud exhaust though. Yeah sure I'm rocking a 3" full exhaust (not straight pipe.) But it's not all that loud, and I want an external dump just for like the fun of it though. I've seen a few evo 9 and X in person and seen them like flyby me and omG I just need to have that!! xD if not I'll just go get the Map resurc down pipe. I don't really mind. I just want to regulate boost perfectly withough having trouble or having boost spikes cause of the IWG not regulating enough exhaust flow out. But thanks for the reply man. I'm leaning more in to the SS housing now. I heard many people hate it cause it's more laggy but I don't really mind. If it regulates boost perfectly withough problems than it's A-OK with me.
Guys have made 650 on an FP red with the MHI housing, you can do 600 on a black for sure. As to how well your actuator will regulate boost will be determined by the spring you've got in it. Should have at least a 22psi spring, 25 would probably be better.
True that. But I was more concerned about having problems with the IWG not flowing enough exhaust out and having boost spikes and stuff. That's why I wanted to go with an EWG. Seen so many 8 and 9 with EWG that I was worried that at those power or boost levels IWG wouldn't flow enough out. Haha. But I was going to go with the SS housing and get a Tial MV-S with it and call it a day.
If there's trouble regulating boost on the IWG find a new tuner. The MHI housing flows pretty good. You won't be able to make 1000whp on it but 600 is easily doable.
If there's trouble regulating boost on the IWG find a new tuner. The MHI housing flows pretty good. You won't be able to make 1000whp on it but 600 is easily doable.
True true, they flow good. But I only wanna know, I won't have problems above and beyond 30 psi? Cause I really wanted to push that turbo a little bit to its limit and not have problems where the boost just keeps climbing cause of the IWG not flowing enough. But I just want something reliable and that keeps the boost under control on the rev range. Though I get your point. I've just seen so many people going EWG here and there on 500 and beyond. I though I was kinda missing something. And other than that I've just seen so many Evo's that are similar to my build and all of them have EWG. So I was scared that when I'd push that FP black hard I would get boost creeps and spikes. So that's when I searched and saw the SS housing. Plus again I want a hood dump. xD but more important I want reliable boost control.
True true, they flow good. But I only wanna know, I won't have problems above and beyond 30 psi? Cause I really wanted to push that turbo a little bit to its limit and not have problems where the boost just keeps climbing cause of the IWG not flowing enough. But I just want something reliable and that keeps the boost under control on the rev range. Though I get your point. I've just seen so many people going EWG here and there on 500 and beyond. I though I was kinda missing something. And other than that I've just seen so many Evo's that are similar to my build and all of them have EWG. So I was scared that when I'd push that FP black hard I would get boost creeps and spikes. So that's when I searched and saw the SS housing. Plus again I want a hood dump. xD but more important I want reliable boost control.
You bring up a good point. I have a SS FP Black from someone that pushed it to the max (40 psi or more), and guess what....it failed like MHI Blacks pushed hard. SS is not anything magical. It just converts a twin scroll into single scroll and removes the volute divider to allow more air to get through. Yes, it trades more power up top for more lag. Yes, it is more efficient up top, but that doesn't automatically mean you can get 600whp from boosting only 30 psi. The reasons you get more power with SS is, (1) it flows better up top so less heat is retained in the turbo housing, so less heat is transferred into intake boost. And (2) by having less back pressure, more exhaust gasses exits the cylinders in every exhaust stroke to make room for more fresh air (oxygen) on intake stroke.
Can you make 600whp with SS housing and 30 psi boost? Maybe with high reading dyno. But realistically, I think you will need 32-36 psi boost with SS.
I took on a challenge to build a JB Black to make 650whp on a built engine with the oem twin scroll. I'm upgrading the weakest part of all the JB turbos being pushed above the normal power limits...the brass thrust plate. I am doing extra things to improve power and reliability, so this is a fun challenge. Anyway, here is what a brass thrust plate looks like from people boosting 40psi on FP SS Black:
Best fix would be getting it changed to a ball bearing center housing. The reason it ate the thrust bearing is most likely because of a large pressure differential between the compressor and turbine wheels. The larger the differential, the harder that thrust bearing will be pushed upon.
Everyone always thinks they need big wastegates for big boost which is why they move to large EWGs. The reality is the higher boost you target, the less wastegate you need since you need to bypass less exhaust gas around the turbine.
As for getting a hood dump there are plenty of companies that make hood dump O2 housings which bolt to the MHI housing.
This turbo is FP's standard JB HTA Black. They wouldn't warranty this failure, so he sold it online saying he turned off car when it started making noises. Problem is, the entire rear JB groove in bearing housing was worn out completely and I don't buy his story.
You bring up a good point. I have a SS FP Black from someone that pushed it to the max (40 psi or more), and guess what....it failed like MHI Blacks pushed hard. SS is not anything magical. It just converts a twin scroll into single scroll and removes the volute divider to allow more air to get through. Yes, it trades more power up top for more lag. Yes, it is more efficient up top, but that doesn't automatically mean you can get 600whp from boosting only 30 psi. The reasons you get more power with SS is, (1) it flows better up top so less heat is retained in the turbo housing, so less heat is transferred into intake boost. And (2) by having less back pressure, more exhaust gasses exits the cylinders in every exhaust stroke to make room for more fresh air (oxygen) on intake stroke.
Can you make 600whp with SS housing and 30 psi boost? Maybe with high reading dyno. But realistically, I think you will need 32-36 psi boost with SS.
I took on a challenge to build a JB Black to make 650whp on a built engine with the oem twin scroll. I'm upgrading the weakest part of all the JB turbos being pushed above the normal power limits...the brass thrust plate. I am doing extra things to improve power and reliability, so this is a fun challenge. Anyway, here is what a brass thrust plate looks like from people boosting 40psi on FP SS Black:
Dang, seriously? And good point too. I know I'm not going to make 600hp from just an SS housing and 30 PSI, again I have a fully built motor with a 9.5/1 comp (won't go to too much detail. xD) But let me re-frace my question cause I'm kinda getting a lot of different answers. Ok so we know 600+hp is doable, sure. But if I wanna reach that goal of 600+ should I keep my MHI housing? As in would it regulate boost good enough to not have problems and also not have too much back pressure? Or should I change to an SS housing for better flow and also for controlling boost? I am going to change my stock ported manifold to a tubular header before I change the housing if I do. Sure i won't be pushing the black to the damaging point. I just wanna reach 600+ hp with that rubo for now, that is if I don't change my set up. But I was concerned that the MHI housing would create back pressure and also have boost spikes above 30 psi cause of the IWG not flowing enough. So for 600+hp Stay MHI or go SS housing?
I'm building a twin scroll Black but switching out the turbine wheel frim 11 blade to a 9 blade so gases can flow out better. It won't get tuned for probably another month on a built 2.0 engine because engine needs to be broken in. I'm not giving up on MHI and jumping to a SS housing yet because spool is so much more. It may not seem like much on a dyno sheet but 1,000 rpm more is too long to wait (at least it is for me). I'll update here later if you can wait for the results. Lol
Feb 24, 2019, 03:16 PM
