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So this is my first build Im doing on my own. Ive done my 3000gt a few times so Im comfortable wrenching but always had help. Im doing a full build and already have most of the parts bought. After the build I will have it tuned by a local shop I trust. Im aiming for 550 on low boost and whatever on high boost. This is what I have already
Induction
MAP turbo and hot parts (dont know much about it as it was already on the car)
STM UIC
Injen LIC
AMS FMIC
AEM EBC
Tial BOV
Fuel
Buletproof fuel hat
525 Pump
Will be running 8an feed 6an return
FIC 2000 Injectors
JM Fab fuel rail
Drivetrain
Jacks built transmission with carbon fiber syncros
Exedy twin clutch
Other
Full 3 inch exhaust
AEM infinity
New oil pump
New coolant pump
Questions
I have a Kelford 272 Cam in the head now, I also have a HKS 280 cam. Should I use the 272, 280 or get something else
Should I get new balance shafts or can I reuse the old ones (about 60k on them)
Should I pich up a specific wastegate spring strength
Is there anything else I need to look at?
Thats a good start. If the engine isn't together already I would do a 94mm crank. It just makes things better/easier IMO.
What turbo and flange do you have ?
If you plan on revving it past 8500 alot then I would recommend the ER oil pump gear to slow things down. ATI dampner is a great idea .
Balance shafts were engineered for a stock rotating assembly. Since you do not have that any more , they need to be deleted. You are more likely to have problems if you keep them on a built engine.
Have the 12 tooth trigger wheel discussion with your tuner. It will help with crank signal clarity on that ecu. Its a must. You also want to have a strong battery. Something like the Odyssey 1100/1200 that has burst of cranking amps to get the engine to fire off well. Make your life easier since you live in a cold climate .
Flex fuel sensor and a trim switch for different boost levels. Motec makes a 4 pot switch or Aem makes an 11. An example would be base boost on pump, then 25psi on E85 on setting 1, 30 on setting 2, 35 on setting 3 etc.
I would run a 20-22psi wastegate spring so you can boost it on pump gas if its a 9:1 engine. Should be able to make 40psi with a traditional BCS.
I wouldn't pay too much attention to the cams,I'd prefer to add boost/octane over being worried about a few horse power with xyz cams. Now, if its a mivec engine. Then I would go with the proven billet S2's to avoid a potential cam failure.
An intake manifold like the Skunk 2 or magnus will make 20whp+ on most turbo setups.
Thank you for all the input. Map has my block now. I will see if they can delete the balance shafts more than likely Ill have to do it since they were expecting to have it shipped by next week. If not Ill look at it when it gets here. As far as the turbo, Im not to sure TBH. Even MAP was having issues finding out info on it. Ill attach a pic of it. Im not to worried about the flex fuel sensor as ill be running E85 all the time. My battery is in good shape not to mention I dont plan on driving it in the snow. Whats your thoughts on the HLA Pressure regulator
When map did my 2.0 recently they tapped and plugged oil passages for balance shafts. Didn't plan on running them but I wouldn't be able too either since they where plugged.
- In regards to cams, I personally consider them a very important aspect of a built. Choosing the right set , zeroing it, and dialing in the most effective combo, according to what you want to do, will yield the best results out of a setup. On an fp black size turbo, either the kelfords 272 or the hks 280s are a good combo. The kelfords 272 have more lift than the hks 280s, and the hks have more effective duration than the kelfords. I would go with the hks 280s, as it is better to have some more effective duration than lift and you will make the same power as the kelfords on the specific setup, also the hks have a bit more streetable characteristics.
- The 12 tooth is not needed on the infinity, but it will not hurt if you use it.
Run the Kelfords, especially if they're already in the car. Make more power up top (especially on a built engine) while sacrificing very little down low compared to the HKS 280s. If you want to replace the cams for whatever reason, go with GSC billet S2s. I'm not sure what "streetable" characteristics he's talking about, but I've been running my Kelford 272s since 2008 and my car has been perfectly streetable. Slightly rough idle but nothing to cry about.
Run the Kelfords, especially if they're already in the car. Make more power up top (especially on a built engine) while sacrificing very little down low compared to the HKS 280s. If you want to replace the cams for whatever reason, go with GSC billet S2s. I'm not sure what "streetable" characteristics he's talking about, but I've been running my Kelford 272s since 2008 and my car has been perfectly streetable. Slightly rough idle but nothing to cry about.
He will not make more power than the hks 280s up top with the kelfords on a 5858 turbo. And even if he run a bigger turbo what makes power up top is duration not lift. Effective duration is what keeps air going into the combustion changer, especially at the higher rpm range where the engine spins so fast. And if you do not know what a set of cams with streetable characteristics is compared to a racing spec cam set i.e, then you should not be giving any advice on the matter. A streetable cam set is a cam set with specific LSA and CL degrees, LSA under 108 for example. The same goes for the cam set's nose, flank and ramp specifications. This in real world terms, means that the cams can be dialed in at a much larger margin than racing camshafts, or camshafts with less streetable characteristics, allowing one to make the best out of them in relation to what he wants to get out of a setup. For you to understand what streetable is, you need to compare your kelfords to the oem cam set. The hks 280s cams have a torque curve very close to stock cams, while making much more power up top. Especially for the turbo he will be running, these cams are perfect. The kelfords are not far off though, with peak numbers being the same, but with a loss low down due to their slightly higher lift, the same goes for the S2. The kelfords 272 make more power than hks 272s, but not the hks 280s. The hks 280s, the kelfords 272, and the GSC S2, are on the same page, in turns of peak power, but the hks 280s have the advantage of some more low end torque. The extra lift of the kelfords or the S2, which are at 11mm while the hks are at 10.8mm, will not be beneficial during midrange where usually lift is beneficial, as the CFM that will be pushed into the engine, turbo size, cannot take advantage of the extra lift , especially on the stock port and valve size, but even if he could, with a ported head, bigger turbo and bigger valve size, the 0.2mm difference alone would not make that much of a difference. From 55mm to 62mm size turbo, I always recommend to people to go with one of these 3 cam sets. Their difference is what I already posted.
If your cams have a lumpy idle , then you have not zeroed them, and they happened to be at a narrow LSA, or your tuner have dialed them in at a very narrow LSA with too much overlap. Bare in mind, that the wrong amount of overlap may help low end drivability and midrange but you leave enough peak hp on the table, so one needs to have the right amount of overlapping in regards to his intended outcome from a setup.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jun 28, 2020 at 10:25 AM.
Reason: typo
He will not make more power than the hks 280s up top with the kelfords on a 5858 turbo. And even if he run a bigger turbo what makes power up top is duration not lift. Effective duration is what keeps air going into the combustion changer, especially at the higher rpm range where the engine spins so fast. And if you do not know what a set of cams with streetable characteristics is compared to a racing spec cam set i.e, then you should not be giving any advice on the matter. A streetable cam set is a cam set with specific LSA and CL degrees, LSA under 108 for example. The same goes for the cam set's nose, flank and ramp specifications. This in real world terms, means that the cams can be dialed in at a much larger margin than racing camshafts, or camshafts with less streetable characteristics, allowing one to make the best out of them in relation to what he wants to get out of a setup. For you to understand what streetable is, you need to compare your kelfords to the oem cam set. The hks 280s cams have a torque curve very close to stock cams, while making much more power up top. Especially for the turbo he will be running, these cams are perfect. The kelfords are not far off though, with peak numbers being the same, but with a loss low down due to their slightly higher lift, the same goes for the S2. The kelfords 272 make more power than hks 272s, but not the hks 280s. The hks 280s, the kelfords 272, and the GSC S2, are on the same page, in turns of peak power, but the hks 280s have the advantage of some more low end torque. The extra lift of the kelfords or the S2, which are at 11mm while the hks are at 10.8mm, will not be beneficial during midrange where usually lift is beneficial, as the CFM that will be pushed into the engine, turbo size, cannot take advantage of the extra lift , especially on the stock port and valve size, but even if he could, with a ported head, bigger turbo and bigger valve size, the 0.2mm difference alone would not make that much of a difference. From 55mm to 62mm size turbo, I always recommend to people to go with one of these 3 cam sets. Their difference is what I already posted.
If your cams have a lumpy idle , then you have not zeroed them, and they happened to be at a narrow LSA, or your tuner have dialed them in at a very narrow LSA with too much overlap. Bare in mind, that the wrong amount of overlap may help low end drivability and midrange but you leave enough peak hp on the table, so one needs to have the right amount of overlapping in regards to his intended outcome from a setup.
Marios
TL;DR.
Op, leave the kelfords in. Ditch the MAP turbo and move to an FP stock frame or a turbo kit.
He will not make more power than the hks 280s up top with the kelfords on a 5858 turbo. And even if he run a bigger turbo what makes power up top is duration not lift. Effective duration is what keeps air going into the combustion changer, especially at the higher rpm range where the engine spins so fast. And if you do not know what a set of cams with streetable characteristics is compared to a racing spec cam set i.e, then you should not be giving any advice on the matter. A streetable cam set is a cam set with specific LSA and CL degrees, LSA under 108 for example. The same goes for the cam set's nose, flank and ramp specifications. This in real world terms, means that the cams can be dialed in at a much larger margin than racing camshafts, or camshafts with less streetable characteristics, allowing one to make the best out of them in relation to what he wants to get out of a setup. For you to understand what streetable is, you need to compare your kelfords to the oem cam set. The hks 280s cams have a torque curve very close to stock cams, while making much more power up top. Especially for the turbo he will be running, these cams are perfect. The kelfords are not far off though, with peak numbers being the same, but with a loss low down due to their slightly higher lift, the same goes for the S2. The kelfords 272 make more power than hks 272s, but not the hks 280s. The hks 280s, the kelfords 272, and the GSC S2, are on the same page, in turns of peak power, but the hks 280s have the advantage of some more low end torque. The extra lift of the kelfords or the S2, which are at 11mm while the hks are at 10.8mm, will not be beneficial during midrange where usually lift is beneficial, as the CFM that will be pushed into the engine, turbo size, cannot take advantage of the extra lift , especially on the stock port and valve size, but even if he could, with a ported head, bigger turbo and bigger valve size, the 0.2mm difference alone would not make that much of a difference. From 55mm to 62mm size turbo, I always recommend to people to go with one of these 3 cam sets. Their difference is what I already posted.
If your cams have a lumpy idle , then you have not zeroed them, and they happened to be at a narrow LSA, or your tuner have dialed them in at a very narrow LSA with too much overlap. Bare in mind, that the wrong amount of overlap may help low end drivability and midrange but you leave enough peak hp on the table, so one needs to have the right amount of overlapping in regards to his intended outcome from a setup.
Marios
Maybe you should do a simple search for HKS 280s vs Kelford 272s and see which ones make more power up top. Going to the HKS cams will be a downgrade and a waste of money.
Seeing as how I've owned my IX since 2006 when it had 2.6 miles on the odometer and was bone stock I actually CAN compare OEM "streetability" vs with the Kelfords (vs everything else I've done). Car drove just as good. The only time "streetability" took a hit was when I was running a VTA BOV on the stock MAF. Even then my car drove just fine once I got used to it. Whatever technical terms you're tossing around mean absolutely nothing when it comes to "streetability" - how it actually drives on the street is what matters. Anyways, "streetability" is subjective as hell.
Maybe you should do a simple search for HKS 280s vs Kelford 272s and see which ones make more power up top. Going to the HKS cams will be a downgrade and a waste of money.
Seeing as how I've owned my IX since 2006 when it had 2.6 miles on the odometer and was bone stock I actually CAN compare OEM "streetability" vs with the Kelfords (vs everything else I've done). Car drove just as good. The only time "streetability" took a hit was when I was running a VTA BOV on the stock MAF. Even then my car drove just fine once I got used to it. Whatever technical terms you're tossing around mean absolutely nothing when it comes to "streetability" - how it actually drives on the street is what matters. Anyways, "streetability" is subjective as hell.
I do not need to do any search, I've run both sets of camshafts extensively. It seems that you did not understand what I posted above, streetability has all to do with the torque curve, the rest you mention here are just problems caused by the wrong way of doing things.
I do not agree with you, the stock oem streetability has nothing to do with the kelford 272. And things are as I have posted them on my previous post, you can accept that or not, that's fine by me.
Op, leave the kelfords in. Ditch the MAP turbo and move to an FP stock frame or a turbo kit.
I disagree.
Fp turbos do have issues also. OP, I gave you my opinion, it's up to you what you want to do. As for the turbo, since you have it, run it until/if it gives you any trouble, then you can change to whatever you want.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jun 28, 2020 at 12:41 PM.
Reason: removed/replaced specific comment so as post to be compliant with forum rules.
Thanks for all the input. Ill add some more pics of the turbo to give a better idea of what I have. Im willing to look at options but it would have to be bolt in. TBH Im already hitting my budget so I will probably sty with the turbo for now. I may use the winter as the time to build the head all the way but well see
