Daily drive dogbox
(been around the block enough times to know that!)
There's daily driving a built Evo.
Then there is the delusion of daily driving an 1100whp Evo with a 76mm turbocharger, dog box, and the rest of the parts to make that power that are vastly incompatible for daily driving.
Then there is the delusion of daily driving an 1100whp Evo with a 76mm turbocharger, dog box, and the rest of the parts to make that power that are vastly incompatible for daily driving.
I've driven the TRC car a few times and the Drenth is incredible. For 700/800+ a Dog box is nice for the shifts and dealing with the RPM . Faster shifts and less likely to break then a syncro trans. But everything comes at a cost. As Sean mentioned the trans will need to be torn down and inspected .
As far as making 1000whp + all the time.. I'd prefer to have more cylinder count for a street car.
Making 250-300hp a hole puts a strain on things.
As far as making 1000whp + all the time.. I'd prefer to have more cylinder count for a street car.
Making 250-300hp a hole puts a strain on things.
Last edited by Abacus; Jul 24, 2020 at 06:38 PM.
There are two questions here: dogbox vs. synchro and helical vs. straight cut. The GT-R in the video has a helical dogbox.
Dogboxes have the harsh engagement but WILL shift, synchros are smooth shifting but may miss shifts at high RPM, and may be slower to complete a shift due to the need for the clutch to disengage/engage.
Helical gears are quiet but weaker, straight cut gears are loud but stronger. The GT-R in the video seems very civilized because it doesn't have the noise of straight-cut gears - its characteristics only change on the shifts. Almost all of the dogboxes built for Evos are straight cut, so expect them all to be loud, bucky, and brutal to shift. All of those things are the enemy of daily drivers.
I can only really speak to the Evo123/DSM platform, but only Albins ever made a helical dogbox for the W5M33 transmission. It's quiet relative to a straight-cut dogbox, but it's weak - they told me not to put over 400 HP or so behind it (I forget the exact number, but it wasn't great). Aside from that, I would never want to use a PPG or PAR dogbox in a car I have to use everyday. Your girlfriends/wives will HATE it, too.
The next option is synchronized, straight-cut gears. PAR makes a kit for the early Evo/DSM, and the goal here is to keep the smooth shifting while being able to hold more power. It's going to whine still, but it's a good bridge for a high powered car that's going to see the street. There will always be people saying "man up, drive that straight-cut dogbox on the street", but most people who actually do it, say it takes away from the driving experience greatly.
Sequential transmissions (not like the Evo-X trans, but actual motorsport-grade transmissions) are a more evolved straight-cut dogbox. They still use dog engagement, straight-cut gears, the difference is just in how the shift mechanism is set up, which typically boils down to the style of the shifter. They are typically extremely expensive but won't do anything for a daily driver.
Dogboxes have the harsh engagement but WILL shift, synchros are smooth shifting but may miss shifts at high RPM, and may be slower to complete a shift due to the need for the clutch to disengage/engage.
Helical gears are quiet but weaker, straight cut gears are loud but stronger. The GT-R in the video seems very civilized because it doesn't have the noise of straight-cut gears - its characteristics only change on the shifts. Almost all of the dogboxes built for Evos are straight cut, so expect them all to be loud, bucky, and brutal to shift. All of those things are the enemy of daily drivers.
I can only really speak to the Evo123/DSM platform, but only Albins ever made a helical dogbox for the W5M33 transmission. It's quiet relative to a straight-cut dogbox, but it's weak - they told me not to put over 400 HP or so behind it (I forget the exact number, but it wasn't great). Aside from that, I would never want to use a PPG or PAR dogbox in a car I have to use everyday. Your girlfriends/wives will HATE it, too.
The next option is synchronized, straight-cut gears. PAR makes a kit for the early Evo/DSM, and the goal here is to keep the smooth shifting while being able to hold more power. It's going to whine still, but it's a good bridge for a high powered car that's going to see the street. There will always be people saying "man up, drive that straight-cut dogbox on the street", but most people who actually do it, say it takes away from the driving experience greatly.
Sequential transmissions (not like the Evo-X trans, but actual motorsport-grade transmissions) are a more evolved straight-cut dogbox. They still use dog engagement, straight-cut gears, the difference is just in how the shift mechanism is set up, which typically boils down to the style of the shifter. They are typically extremely expensive but won't do anything for a daily driver.
There are two questions here: dogbox vs. synchro and helical vs. straight cut. The GT-R in the video has a helical dogbox.
Dogboxes have the harsh engagement but WILL shift, synchros are smooth shifting but may miss shifts at high RPM, and may be slower to complete a shift due to the need for the clutch to disengage/engage.
Helical gears are quiet but weaker, straight cut gears are loud but stronger. The GT-R in the video seems very civilized because it doesn't have the noise of straight-cut gears - its characteristics only change on the shifts. Almost all of the dogboxes built for Evos are straight cut, so expect them all to be loud, bucky, and brutal to shift. All of those things are the enemy of daily drivers.
I can only really speak to the Evo123/DSM platform, but only Albins ever made a helical dogbox for the W5M33 transmission. It's quiet relative to a straight-cut dogbox, but it's weak - they told me not to put over 400 HP or so behind it (I forget the exact number, but it wasn't great). Aside from that, I would never want to use a PPG or PAR dogbox in a car I have to use everyday. Your girlfriends/wives will HATE it, too.
The next option is synchronized, straight-cut gears. PAR makes a kit for the early Evo/DSM, and the goal here is to keep the smooth shifting while being able to hold more power. It's going to whine still, but it's a good bridge for a high powered car that's going to see the street. There will always be people saying "man up, drive that straight-cut dogbox on the street", but most people who actually do it, say it takes away from the driving experience greatly.
Sequential transmissions (not like the Evo-X trans, but actual motorsport-grade transmissions) are a more evolved straight-cut dogbox. They still use dog engagement, straight-cut gears, the difference is just in how the shift mechanism is set up, which typically boils down to the style of the shifter. They are typically extremely expensive but won't do anything for a daily driver.
Dogboxes have the harsh engagement but WILL shift, synchros are smooth shifting but may miss shifts at high RPM, and may be slower to complete a shift due to the need for the clutch to disengage/engage.
Helical gears are quiet but weaker, straight cut gears are loud but stronger. The GT-R in the video seems very civilized because it doesn't have the noise of straight-cut gears - its characteristics only change on the shifts. Almost all of the dogboxes built for Evos are straight cut, so expect them all to be loud, bucky, and brutal to shift. All of those things are the enemy of daily drivers.
I can only really speak to the Evo123/DSM platform, but only Albins ever made a helical dogbox for the W5M33 transmission. It's quiet relative to a straight-cut dogbox, but it's weak - they told me not to put over 400 HP or so behind it (I forget the exact number, but it wasn't great). Aside from that, I would never want to use a PPG or PAR dogbox in a car I have to use everyday. Your girlfriends/wives will HATE it, too.
The next option is synchronized, straight-cut gears. PAR makes a kit for the early Evo/DSM, and the goal here is to keep the smooth shifting while being able to hold more power. It's going to whine still, but it's a good bridge for a high powered car that's going to see the street. There will always be people saying "man up, drive that straight-cut dogbox on the street", but most people who actually do it, say it takes away from the driving experience greatly.
Sequential transmissions (not like the Evo-X trans, but actual motorsport-grade transmissions) are a more evolved straight-cut dogbox. They still use dog engagement, straight-cut gears, the difference is just in how the shift mechanism is set up, which typically boils down to the style of the shifter. They are typically extremely expensive but won't do anything for a daily driver.
Also keep in mind the purpose - the synchro box isn't going to like roll racing at 1,000+ whp. Again, it's meant for higher power street cars (I would say 700-800 whp), where the power can still be put down (within reason), and it where the car doesn't need to be overhauled every couple thousand miles. I certainly wouldn't take it past that level with any expectation that it's going to survive long and it would certainly miss shifts at 10k RPM. There is a reason why so few 1,000 whp Evo street cars are out there, and why their usage is so limited - the limits of the platform dictate that to do it, it's going to be unpleasant, and it's going to cost a fortune.
Last edited by RS200; Jul 25, 2020 at 05:42 PM.
Originally Posted by Grimgrak
What exactly is a cuff on a dogbox notice it's in the highest gear usually is it a way of quieting it down for cruising?
The cuff is a Honda thing where they eliminate 5th and/or 6th gear and put a cuff over the shafts to prevent flexing.
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