Throttle body and ported stock intake options
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From: Treynor, Iowa
Throttle body and ported stock intake options
Was originally looking to do a skunk 2 intake this winter with full blown throttle body. Now stuff has come up and instead of doing that and spending more money to switch up my catch can (mine bolts to the factory intake manifold), I decided to port the stock manifold and do something about a throttle body. Unfortunately I cant seem to find anyone that does 65mm ported stock throttle bodies anymore.
So basically my first question is who would you recommend to port my manifold and does anyone know why the STM is so cheap compared to the other two? ( STM-$250 Boostin-$325 Strictly Modified-$345)
Second question is what are you recommendations for a throttle body on a stock ported manifold? Strictly Modified is the only one out of those three that "ports" the throttle body but they still use the stock plate so it cant be that much gain IMO. I thought about just getting the Full Blown that I originally wanted but that 70mm throttle body looks out of place on a factory manifold. Just curious as to what other people have used and are happy with.
Thank you for all of your time and sorry if my typing is kind of jumbled together. It's been a long day and I'm about ready to pass out. lol
So basically my first question is who would you recommend to port my manifold and does anyone know why the STM is so cheap compared to the other two? ( STM-$250 Boostin-$325 Strictly Modified-$345)
Second question is what are you recommendations for a throttle body on a stock ported manifold? Strictly Modified is the only one out of those three that "ports" the throttle body but they still use the stock plate so it cant be that much gain IMO. I thought about just getting the Full Blown that I originally wanted but that 70mm throttle body looks out of place on a factory manifold. Just curious as to what other people have used and are happy with.
Thank you for all of your time and sorry if my typing is kind of jumbled together. It's been a long day and I'm about ready to pass out. lol
I have a Curt Brown 70mm extreme ported stock intake manifold and an S90 70mm throttle body. Easily the best manifold on the market but unfortunately Curt passed away a few months ago. If you can find a used one I'd pick it up without a second thought. What are your goals with the car?
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Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Treynor, Iowa
I'm guessing he has an 8 or 9 which means it's a cable, not drive by wire.
I have a Curt Brown 70mm extreme ported stock intake manifold and an S90 70mm throttle body. Easily the best manifold on the market but unfortunately Curt passed away a few months ago. If you can find a used one I'd pick it up without a second thought. What are your goals with the car?
I have a Curt Brown 70mm extreme ported stock intake manifold and an S90 70mm throttle body. Easily the best manifold on the market but unfortunately Curt passed away a few months ago. If you can find a used one I'd pick it up without a second thought. What are your goals with the car?
Mil-Spec still does ported throttle bodies, maybe throttlebodys.com does ported stuff too. I really don't think a ported TB is going to pick up a ton of power, though. If your intercooler piping has a 2.5" ID, that's 63.5mm - having a 70mm throttle body for that small section isn't really changing much (and the intake manifold inlet limits the size of throttle you can effectively run anyway). It will make the gas pedal seem more responsive (which would really just be mimicking more throttle body angle due to the increased flow), but tests over the years here have shown that bigger throttle bodies don't produce gains because they aren't a restriction. A few of the high-power DSM guys put 1000hp through a stock 60mm TB, and there are anecdotes here of bigger throttle bodies and 3" IC piping making single digit gains on 700+ hp Evos. Ported stock intakes are a different story though - the CB-ported manifold is one of the best-balanced manifolds there is, and it will murder practically every aftermarket manifold at any RPM for lower-powered cars. Overall, 2.5" intercooler piping, a stock or slightly ported stock TB and a well-ported intake manifold is practically impossible to beat for their balance of spool characteristics and overall power figures.
Myself, I'm trying my best to find a CB manifold for my Evo 1, to match the CB head that I have, but that's proving very difficult. I also bought a 65mm Outlander V6 DBW throttle body to go with that manifold because 1) it's OEM, 2) it was cheap, 3) it's direct fit and 4) it's a smooth transition from 63.5mm piping to the manifold.
A team that won their class at World Time Attack suggested matching throttle body diameters to the turbo inducer diameter - they had a 68mm Bosch Motorsport TB on their 550whp Evo but said it was hurting spool and was overkill for flow; they wanted something in the 58-60mm range instead (58mm inducer on the G30-770).
Myself, I'm trying my best to find a CB manifold for my Evo 1, to match the CB head that I have, but that's proving very difficult. I also bought a 65mm Outlander V6 DBW throttle body to go with that manifold because 1) it's OEM, 2) it was cheap, 3) it's direct fit and 4) it's a smooth transition from 63.5mm piping to the manifold.
A team that won their class at World Time Attack suggested matching throttle body diameters to the turbo inducer diameter - they had a 68mm Bosch Motorsport TB on their 550whp Evo but said it was hurting spool and was overkill for flow; they wanted something in the 58-60mm range instead (58mm inducer on the G30-770).
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2020
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From: Treynor, Iowa
Mil-Spec still does ported throttle bodies, maybe throttlebodys.com does ported stuff too. I really don't think a ported TB is going to pick up a ton of power, though. If your intercooler piping has a 2.5" ID, that's 63.5mm - having a 70mm throttle body for that small section isn't really changing much (and the intake manifold inlet limits the size of throttle you can effectively run anyway). It will make the gas pedal seem more responsive (which would really just be mimicking more throttle body angle due to the increased flow), but tests over the years here have shown that bigger throttle bodies don't produce gains because they aren't a restriction. A few of the high-power DSM guys put 1000hp through a stock 60mm TB, and there are anecdotes here of bigger throttle bodies and 3" IC piping making single digit gains on 700+ hp Evos. Ported stock intakes are a different story though - the CB-ported manifold is one of the best-balanced manifolds there is, and it will murder practically every aftermarket manifold at any RPM for lower-powered cars. Overall, 2.5" intercooler piping, a stock or slightly ported stock TB and a well-ported intake manifold is practically impossible to beat for their balance of spool characteristics and overall power figures.
Myself, I'm trying my best to find a CB manifold for my Evo 1, to match the CB head that I have, but that's proving very difficult. I also bought a 65mm Outlander V6 DBW throttle body to go with that manifold because 1) it's OEM, 2) it was cheap, 3) it's direct fit and 4) it's a smooth transition from 63.5mm piping to the manifold.
A team that won their class at World Time Attack suggested matching throttle body diameters to the turbo inducer diameter - they had a 68mm Bosch Motorsport TB on their 550whp Evo but said it was hurting spool and was overkill for flow; they wanted something in the 58-60mm range instead (58mm inducer on the G30-770).
Myself, I'm trying my best to find a CB manifold for my Evo 1, to match the CB head that I have, but that's proving very difficult. I also bought a 65mm Outlander V6 DBW throttle body to go with that manifold because 1) it's OEM, 2) it was cheap, 3) it's direct fit and 4) it's a smooth transition from 63.5mm piping to the manifold.
A team that won their class at World Time Attack suggested matching throttle body diameters to the turbo inducer diameter - they had a 68mm Bosch Motorsport TB on their 550whp Evo but said it was hurting spool and was overkill for flow; they wanted something in the 58-60mm range instead (58mm inducer on the G30-770).
So I suppose I could probably just stick with my stock Throttle body or have it slightly ported by Strictly Modified and be happy. My question now obviously is trying to figure out which company to go with because $250 for STM porting sounds a lot better than $325 for Boostin or $345 for strictly modified's porting. STM does quality work on everything I've got from them but unfortunately they have been very busy this year and you can't call them anymore. Also their email response is lacking this year. I don't mind spending the extra $95 though if its worth it to go with the Strictly modified one.
You need to find out who does porting on the Plenum. If non of them port the plenum its not worth it. Anyone could port the runners on the manifold with just some simple sand paper flap wheels. Curt Brown cut off the flange to port the plenum then welded on a 70mm flange. If you want to stick with a stock manifold see if you can find someone selling a CB then you can use a 70mm throttle body.
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Does the s90 look funky on it like it doesn't belong? I would really like to do the Full blown 70mm but it just looks way to big by comparison IMO. I made 476/399 this year with FP green, stock longblock, and e85. Looking to get some of the supporting pieces and make a little more power this year before building the block and head and shooting for the 700-800 range with a FP Zero.
I'm shooting for the 750-850 range. The manifold/throttle body combo should be spot on for what I need/want.
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Joined: Nov 2014
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From: Cyprus
Some misconceptions here.
- An aftermarket T/B by itself will not do you any good sub 750hp.
- Throttle bodies do not mimic anything. Whether you run a stock T/B or an aftermarket one, the throttle (plate) position/angle will remain the same on the stock petal system. It does not also make the petal feel more responsive. The feeling is the same as the stock pedal. Now if your setup feels more responsive to the same pedal input, it will be because of other reasons which made your overall setup more efficient. There is no point in mentioning/discussing these in this thread.
- Also. the team that won what they won, and considered that one needs to match the inducer of a turbo to the size of the throttle plate, made the wrong assumption, as it has no scientific/theoretical nor pragmatic attribute. Things are more complicated and involving in regards to fluid dynamics and aerodynamics in relation to this. Simply consider the fact that the stock T/B works perfectly with the stock turbo an inducer of 48mm. A 58mm inducer turbo, starting from the gtx3076r gen 2, pte5858 to the g30 to the fp black which flow similar in reality, with the fp black being slightly better max cfm wise, does not need a 68mm throttle body, nor 3" piping, the stock un ported t/b is enough, and it is also not just enough but it still remains the right size for that specific size of inducer, there is no need for smaller nor bigger, no matter the intended application of the setup, the same goes for the inlet manifold, stock manifold is enough. If you do though wish to upgrade things on the inlet side of things, do a 2.5" pipe size, and a 68mm or 70mm along with a properly ported and modified stock inlet manifold, not just the T/B, as you will gain absolutely nothing. The CB items are an awesome choice of parts, you will gain some little hp up top on the 58mm turbo in your effort to max it out, but the 68/70mm T/B will cost you a couple of hundred rpm of boost threshold, although transient response will not be affected. My suggestion is if you are going to do an inlet parts upgrade, do both inlet manifold and T/B, mostly as a future investment if you intent to run a bigger turbo. A properly ported and modified stock manifold is enough for 900+ hp, and the CB parts, will shine best between 800-900+ hp, sub 1000hp, shooting above 1000hp you will need to get a bigger cm2 area inlet manifold with your 70mm t/b. All the best with your built.
- An aftermarket T/B by itself will not do you any good sub 750hp.
- Throttle bodies do not mimic anything. Whether you run a stock T/B or an aftermarket one, the throttle (plate) position/angle will remain the same on the stock petal system. It does not also make the petal feel more responsive. The feeling is the same as the stock pedal. Now if your setup feels more responsive to the same pedal input, it will be because of other reasons which made your overall setup more efficient. There is no point in mentioning/discussing these in this thread.
- Also. the team that won what they won, and considered that one needs to match the inducer of a turbo to the size of the throttle plate, made the wrong assumption, as it has no scientific/theoretical nor pragmatic attribute. Things are more complicated and involving in regards to fluid dynamics and aerodynamics in relation to this. Simply consider the fact that the stock T/B works perfectly with the stock turbo an inducer of 48mm. A 58mm inducer turbo, starting from the gtx3076r gen 2, pte5858 to the g30 to the fp black which flow similar in reality, with the fp black being slightly better max cfm wise, does not need a 68mm throttle body, nor 3" piping, the stock un ported t/b is enough, and it is also not just enough but it still remains the right size for that specific size of inducer, there is no need for smaller nor bigger, no matter the intended application of the setup, the same goes for the inlet manifold, stock manifold is enough. If you do though wish to upgrade things on the inlet side of things, do a 2.5" pipe size, and a 68mm or 70mm along with a properly ported and modified stock inlet manifold, not just the T/B, as you will gain absolutely nothing. The CB items are an awesome choice of parts, you will gain some little hp up top on the 58mm turbo in your effort to max it out, but the 68/70mm T/B will cost you a couple of hundred rpm of boost threshold, although transient response will not be affected. My suggestion is if you are going to do an inlet parts upgrade, do both inlet manifold and T/B, mostly as a future investment if you intent to run a bigger turbo. A properly ported and modified stock manifold is enough for 900+ hp, and the CB parts, will shine best between 800-900+ hp, sub 1000hp, shooting above 1000hp you will need to get a bigger cm2 area inlet manifold with your 70mm t/b. All the best with your built.
Last edited by Evo8cy; Nov 19, 2020 at 10:41 PM. Reason: typo
Some misconceptions here.
- An aftermarket T/B by itself will not do you any good sub 750hp.
- Throttle bodies do not mimic anything. Whether you run a stock T/B or an aftermarket one, the throttle (plate) position/angle will remain the same on the stock petal system. It does not also make the petal feel more responsive. The feeling is the same as the stock pedal. Now if your setup feels more responsive to the same pedal input, it will be because of other reasons which made your overall setup more efficient. There is no point in mentioning/discussing these in this thread.
- Also. the team that won what they won, and considered that one needs to match the inducer of a turbo to the size of the throttle plate, made the wrong assumption, as it has no scientific/theoretical nor pragmatic attribute. Things are more complicated and involving in regards to fluid dynamics and aerodynamics in relation to this. Simply consider the fact that the stock T/B works perfectly with the stock turbo an inducer of 48mm. A 58mm inducer turbo, starting from the gtx3076r gen 2, pte5858 to the g30 to the fp black which flow similar in reality, with the fp black being slightly better max cfm wise, does not need a 68mm throttle body, nor 3" piping, the stock un ported t/b is enough, and it is also not just enough but it still remains the right size for that specific size of inducer, there is no need for smaller nor bigger, no matter the intended application of the setup, the same goes for the inlet manifold, stock manifold is enough. If you do though wish to upgrade things on the inlet side of things, do a 2.5" pipe size, and a 68mm or 70mm along with a properly ported and modified stock inlet manifold, not just the T/B, as you will gain absolutely nothing. The CB items are an awesome choice of parts, you will gain some little hp up top on the 58mm turbo in your effort to max it out, but the 68/70mm T/B will cost you a couple of hundred rpm of boost threshold, although transient response will not be affected. My suggestion is if you are going to do an inlet parts upgrade, do both inlet manifold and T/B, mostly as a future investment if you intent to run a bigger turbo. A properly ported and modified stock manifold is enough for 900+ hp, and the CB parts, will shine best between 800-900+ hp, sub 1000hp, shooting above 1000hp you will need to get a bigger cm2 area inlet manifold with your 70mm t/b. All the best with your built.
- An aftermarket T/B by itself will not do you any good sub 750hp.
- Throttle bodies do not mimic anything. Whether you run a stock T/B or an aftermarket one, the throttle (plate) position/angle will remain the same on the stock petal system. It does not also make the petal feel more responsive. The feeling is the same as the stock pedal. Now if your setup feels more responsive to the same pedal input, it will be because of other reasons which made your overall setup more efficient. There is no point in mentioning/discussing these in this thread.
- Also. the team that won what they won, and considered that one needs to match the inducer of a turbo to the size of the throttle plate, made the wrong assumption, as it has no scientific/theoretical nor pragmatic attribute. Things are more complicated and involving in regards to fluid dynamics and aerodynamics in relation to this. Simply consider the fact that the stock T/B works perfectly with the stock turbo an inducer of 48mm. A 58mm inducer turbo, starting from the gtx3076r gen 2, pte5858 to the g30 to the fp black which flow similar in reality, with the fp black being slightly better max cfm wise, does not need a 68mm throttle body, nor 3" piping, the stock un ported t/b is enough, and it is also not just enough but it still remains the right size for that specific size of inducer, there is no need for smaller nor bigger, no matter the intended application of the setup, the same goes for the inlet manifold, stock manifold is enough. If you do though wish to upgrade things on the inlet side of things, do a 2.5" pipe size, and a 68mm or 70mm along with a properly ported and modified stock inlet manifold, not just the T/B, as you will gain absolutely nothing. The CB items are an awesome choice of parts, you will gain some little hp up top on the 58mm turbo in your effort to max it out, but the 68/70mm T/B will cost you a couple of hundred rpm of boost threshold, although transient response will not be affected. My suggestion is if you are going to do an inlet parts upgrade, do both inlet manifold and T/B, mostly as a future investment if you intent to run a bigger turbo. A properly ported and modified stock manifold is enough for 900+ hp, and the CB parts, will shine best between 800-900+ hp, sub 1000hp, shooting above 1000hp you will need to get a bigger cm2 area inlet manifold with your 70mm t/b. All the best with your built.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 563
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From: Cyprus
As I said it is a matter that is more involving scientifically wise, cfm characteristics in regards to fluid dynamics and aerodynamics in relation to the whole setup from the turbo used to the throttle plate itself. But as far as your above question I will simply say that things are not as you think of them. It concerns the actual amount of cfm of air involved vs the actual cm2 area affected vs the actual construction of the T/B, mostly the thickness of its plate, the applied torque of its spring, the overall larger cm2 area, mainly the pre-plate area, of the t/b which affects speed, velocity and flow. Even if we take into consideration that these are the same between the stock and the 70 aftermarket t/b , which are actually not the same and cannot be the same, that amount of more air at 10% throttle refers to an actual cm2 area which is very small to make a difference. What you say will make some difference at 50%+ throttle on a stock t/b that has been ported to 68mm with all its constructional characteristics remaining the same, and only if the actual pushed CFM into that enlarged cm2 of 8mm at 50% throttle is overflowing, if it is in other words barely squeezed into that extra specific opening. This will affect the plate/pedal system curve, especially experienced during gear change procedure without flat-shift feature employed, but the t/b and plate/pedal will not be mimicing anything , it will just adjust to its environment and its fluid dynamic characteristics. The more cfm is pushed through a specific turbo/ic/piping/t/b system using the same size/type t/b, the more the throttle/pedal system will be affected. On the 58mm turbo he is going to use, there will be no effect whatsoever on the pedal system present , between the stock t/b and the 70mm one, the only effect will be that he will notice a couple of hundred rpm of higher boost threshold between the two.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Nov 20, 2020 at 12:39 AM. Reason: typo
I would keep it simple. A stock ported intake and stock bored 65mm throttle body will make the power you need with idle control and all components fitting properly. I have Buschur Racing components on my Evo and I am happy with the stock components modified by them. It has been proven that most after market intakes and large throttle bodies are not needed at your power level. If you search on this site David Buschur's testing on this subject you will see what I mean.
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