I think most folks at this point know the ball bearings are about durability. I think you would agree though the first thing most people do when they get their mitts on a BB turbo is give it a good spin

 

It's always good to hear a positive story. I.E. yes the other day someone told me they have a MAP turbo that is still running strong. You just never know!

Yep. We pretty much know will that. But thank you for the refresher.

 

No worries, it is my pleasure to share any knowledge I have. My comments are mostly for those who are not into the know.

I did not mention durability and longevity between the two types of bearing systems, because it is irrelevant to the shut down effect as per my comment on it. I have though mentioned and stressed the difference in thrusting load tolerance margin and longevity between the two, many a times in forums, as I'm sure I have on here also, and it is indeed a well known fact amongst fellow gearheads.
Nothing wrong with spinning a compressor wheel by hand i.e. as long as people know that how it spins has nothing to do with a turbocharger's efficiency characteristics. I've heard quite a few inconsistencies at the very least, if not idiotic , comments on turbochargers over the years, but the one that was the worst of all was the "belief" that when ones spins the wheels of a turbocharger without any kind of lubricant in it, then one could actually damage the bearing system.


Boost on guys and stay safe.




~ Marios

 

For what ever reason this made me think of a hilarious Chris Rock bit



remember spinners?

 

Remembering this thread after a year for an update - after pretty hard driving with this kit for awhile, from first hand experience would just like to counter some of the internet stigma of older turbochargers not just the gt3037s. I am now making around 520/490 with this turbo kit on ethanol. Spool up is very good (full boost @ around 4200 rpm holds all the way to the top). Id say its comparable to a some of the quickest spooling turbos at that power level today. No rusting or cracked manifolds as stated earlier by rs200. Its true these are Japanese bred turbos and most tuners/shops here don't know how or what to do with them so servicing is a pain as they need to be dialed in by someone who knows what there doing.

Here's MY conclusion - turbocharger progression sort of stopped mattering after 2010ish, heck the 4g63 engine and turbo is 30 years old and is still impressive by todays standards. Sure the new materials they use are more efficient but even Garrett admitted at an event I was watching on YouTube that billet turbine wheels are just basically bling, the spool response time is not even noticeable and its mostly just marketing to sell newer turbochargers.. Honestly I think turbos are given too much credit/attention in general when building a car these days. What matters most (and what truly progressed is actual computer tech) are supporting mods (proper ecu/tuning, injectors, vehicle weight, tires ect) in making a truly quick responsive car. These are the things that were actually holding older turbos back making them appear to be inferior to todays. Maybe someone running an old-school turbocharger in 2022 can chime in and back up (or not lol) what im saying.

 

500whp is like 50 trim power.

 

yes, old turbochargers are un-necessarily bigger. Modern turbos can output the more power/flow rate in a smaller frame. they are more efficient at doing what their supposed to.

 

I'm confused. It sounds like your previous post states that older turbos were fine and other problems caused them to appear to not work as well as modern stuff.
But then this post says opposite.
Am I (most likely) not understanding?

 

Sounds abit like contradiction I guess im trying to say they'll do the same job if you want to be around 500 whp, just less efficiently and with more hurdles. So if you want a jdm build with authentic old hks parts and were concerned you're not going to make enough power or it will be laggy im saying its absolutely not the case with modern tuning and supporting mods. Is it worth it when I could have just went with something like an fp red or pte setup for cheaper? Not to most but the feeling of having old interesting and super unique jdm parts in my car satisfies me, hearing the super loud whistle of the anti surge compressor housing is just plain awesome and nostalgic and its scary fast on slicks (the car is also quite weight reduced at around 2600 lbs). Feels much faster than my old evo 8 rs with fp black setup. I will be making a thread soon on specs, post dyno sheets and more details on this build if interested look out for it!

heres a pic when i installed the kit new

 

Gotcha. Yeah, e85 tuning is light years ahead of a Vishnu piggy back. I hear you on the cool turbo sounds. My FP Green and HTA71 sound amazing with FAP covers!
Most here know my view on small vs large turbos. My car at 430whp is so quick and responsive, I can't bring myself to run a larger turbo, even though the car would be happier at the racetrack. I could imagine what it would be like if my car was as light as yours. I don't think I would ever change a thing.

 

Just to clarify, cracking HKS manifolds are indeed a problem. Just because you don't have it now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. I'd be checking routinely:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ld-cracks.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ld-beware.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-manifold.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...r-cracked.html

I agree that turbocharger technology has not progressed much in the past decade. The BorgWarner EFR came out in 2010 but is still king of the hill for circuit applications with minor tweaks along the way in wheel and housing sizing. The 6258, 6758 and 7670 all came out in 2010 but are still cutting-edge performers. The biggest gains in response over the past 20 years were found in reducing inertia - the titanium aluminide turbines in the EFR range, along with improvements in turbine sizing and matching, are the reason why response is so good on 60+ lb/min turbochargers. TiAL was around in the 90s with the Evo 5/6+ RS turbochargers and helped the cars be more responsive, but isn't something that many companies have taken advantage of due to the difficulty in producing it. The older Garretts were heavy, relatively speaking, and wheel profile can't really solve that. Compressor wheels have come a long way since the 3037S too, particularly in the ability to make efficient flow at high pressure ratios, which helps the people who are really ringing everything they can out of their setup. For someone who is putting around on 10 psi, they aren't going to notice that difference. The GT3037S 52T is a GT3071R, which is a 49 lb/min turbo at the end of the day, right around what a 71HTA flows, and right around what the GTX2867 flows - anything that could be done with the 52T 3037 can be done better with the newer turbo. Compare the compressor maps and you'll see how far they've been able to stretch the efficiency island. Add to incremental gains in turbine profile, and definite gains in reducing inertia, and you have a turbo that is more efficient and more responsive in every regard.