Bolt On Mod Listings (No Tuning) - help!
Originally Posted by BADWRX
I am just running a EBC (SBC-id) and a full 3 inch right now. I am running 20 PSi...wich tapers down to around 18 at redline because the turbo runs out of breath. I need my PE1820 back that I had on the WRX!
Anyway, the car is running strong as an OX! BTW, she is catless...next mods are installing my Helix O2 housing, and my Walbro fuel pump, and HKS RS intake. Then I am going to have Al do his magic on a TTM dynoflash. That should put me at 300WHP on the 93 octane available here.
Anyway, the car is running strong as an OX! BTW, she is catless...next mods are installing my Helix O2 housing, and my Walbro fuel pump, and HKS RS intake. Then I am going to have Al do his magic on a TTM dynoflash. That should put me at 300WHP on the 93 octane available here.
I have:
HKS RS Intake
MBC
3" DP
3" Cat Delete
3" Catback
Walbro Fuel Pump
My buddy has:
HKS RS Intake
3" Catback (exact same as mine)
Works P2 Flash
When I had the Dynoflash he would slowly pull on me in a 5th gear roll from 50 to whatever (top speed).
When I had TurboTrix tune my ECU things changed. I now DESTROY my friend in the 5th gear roll. We also dynoed our cars. While I will not post either of our dyno charts (since I don't have them on me right now) I will say this. He dynoed 264 WHP (low reading dyno). he outran me with all my mods and a dynoflash.
I dynoed 292 WHP (low reading dyno - same one - should be around 310-315 on regular dynojet). That means that with a Dynoflash I was something below 264 (maybe like 255 AWHP). So I gained almost 40 HP going from Dynoflash to TurboTrix.
By the way, my AF was WAY WAY WAY rich on that dyno run. I had it retuned and it feels much better now. I will probably redyno on Wed. to see what gains I got (I am hoping for 20 more WHP - it was that rich). PLEASE don't use Dynoflash!
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I'm going to bump this back to the top in hopes we can get some more options listed. Again, what can we 'bolt-on' our Evo's w/o the need for serious tuning or dyno time.
I just added the following to the running list:
02 Housing
Throttle Body (WORKS)
I just added the following to the running list:
02 Housing
Throttle Body (WORKS)
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Originally Posted by EVOTEXAS
boomn, did you notice a big difference with the AMS lower IC piping?
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Originally Posted by SterlingEvo
My first mod was a Buschur 3" turboback and I got a pretty good gain from that alone.
I'd certainly consider ECU flash to be tuning...
I'd certainly consider ECU flash to be tuning...
Originally Posted by boomn29
A flash would not be considered ongoing tuning - that's what I was getting at. You don't have to invest in a piggy-back or spend hours each week on the dyno. A flash is more of a 'set it and forget it' approach.
This is a good post and info that I've been looking for. I know adding bolt-ons to the Evo might be more complicated than when I did add bolt-on to my NA Impreza RS. My old subie had a Cobb CAI and Stromung catback, which all added much needed power without the need for ECU flashes or re-tuning. BUT is it really necessary to have a flash or ecu re-tune if I just bolt on a catback to the Evo?
That will most likely be my first major mod. Since i do have to buy some winter tires also, tuning money, might not be easily had at the moment. Also there really are not that many Evo tuners out here in Detroit. I know of 2, but I'm still not sure if they really are that good.
Are there people here putting bolt-ons without flashes or re-tunes? Will the stock ECU learn to compensate the bolt-ons eventually? Like it would if you do a reset? The running list is great, but any actual owners running them without the tuning/flashes? Please chime in.
That will most likely be my first major mod. Since i do have to buy some winter tires also, tuning money, might not be easily had at the moment. Also there really are not that many Evo tuners out here in Detroit. I know of 2, but I'm still not sure if they really are that good.
Are there people here putting bolt-ons without flashes or re-tunes? Will the stock ECU learn to compensate the bolt-ons eventually? Like it would if you do a reset? The running list is great, but any actual owners running them without the tuning/flashes? Please chime in.
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rsboy - check out my signature. I do have a reflash (P2) but it was the first mod I've done and it was for a stock car.
No, you don't need to drastically re-tune for a catback. Most of us don't unless they are on a more serious mod path. Of course you could re-tune in order to extract every last bit of hp, but I don't have the money or time to spend (piggy-back, multiple reflashes, dynotime) to do that personally.
If you do add a 'bolt-on'; definitely unhook your battery to let the ECU relearn. Depress your break a few times, and then connect it back up. Then when you restart your car for the first time, let it idle for a bit. Go through a couple gears, and then let it coast/idle for a bit again. This will help it 'learn'. Is it as good as professional tuning, obviously not. Does tuners do it when they reflash - bet your *** they do.
No, you don't need to drastically re-tune for a catback. Most of us don't unless they are on a more serious mod path. Of course you could re-tune in order to extract every last bit of hp, but I don't have the money or time to spend (piggy-back, multiple reflashes, dynotime) to do that personally.
If you do add a 'bolt-on'; definitely unhook your battery to let the ECU relearn. Depress your break a few times, and then connect it back up. Then when you restart your car for the first time, let it idle for a bit. Go through a couple gears, and then let it coast/idle for a bit again. This will help it 'learn'. Is it as good as professional tuning, obviously not. Does tuners do it when they reflash - bet your *** they do.
Originally Posted by rsboy
Are there people here putting bolt-ons without flashes or re-tunes? Will the stock ECU learn to compensate the bolt-ons eventually?
But, there are limitations:
(1) The adaptations the ECU learns at PT may not be entirely accurate at WOT, as the ECU has no means of verifying A/F at WOT (it uses the O2 sensors only at PT). Disconnecting power to the ECU will bring it back to the default settings, and will make it relearn a little quicker, but the end result is the same.
(2) The ECU will make changes to keep settings in line with the crappy factory program...unless you already have a reflash, upon which the ECU will attempt to maintain the A/F settings of the new program.
In short, the factory programming leaves a lot to be desired, and will always be a (severely) limiting factor if left unchanged. This being the case, probably the single most important mod one can make is a proper recalibration of the ECU. Without this, one will doubtfully even reach the potential of the factory hardware, much less take full advantage of aftermarket hardware (the ones that work anyway).
Finally, bolt-ons add power potential only where factory items cause power restrictions, and that appears to be a very finite list for a stock (or nearly stock) car. There are a few items that will improve power, and at least a hundred you don't need. In any case, to get your money's worth, I strongly suggest adding recalibration of the factory ECU to your list of 'must have' mods. If you've already done this, you probably don't need to have it recalibrated for every single item you add...unless that item significantly changes operating conditions or affects WOT A/F.
Last edited by Ted B; Oct 21, 2004 at 02:32 PM.
Great info! 
Thanks!
Definitely will think about the ECU recalibration once I get most of the parts I want. But it's kinda good to know that even with the limiting factor, the ECU will at least adapt to the changes with a turboback/catback and maybe a intake. Those will mostl likely be the first real mods and then move on to the tuning.
Hopefully those 2 thing won't make the performance worst on the low end or high end...like many people have stated with adding intakes. 
I guess I might soon find out.
Damn... the pitfalls of modding cars. It's just so hard to drive it stock anymore. And i'm only at around 1500 miles.
Thanks! Definitely will think about the ECU recalibration once I get most of the parts I want. But it's kinda good to know that even with the limiting factor, the ECU will at least adapt to the changes with a turboback/catback and maybe a intake. Those will mostl likely be the first real mods and then move on to the tuning.
Hopefully those 2 thing won't make the performance worst on the low end or high end...like many people have stated with adding intakes. I guess I might soon find out.Damn... the pitfalls of modding cars. It's just so hard to drive it stock anymore. And i'm only at around 1500 miles.
Originally Posted by Ted B
Whether you reset the computer or not, the stock ECU will learn the new hardware as it affects PT (Part Throttle) operation, and will apply the changes to WOT (Wide Open Throttle) operation. This is the benefit of a MAS based system.
But, there are limitations:
(1) The adaptations the ECU learns at PT may not be entirely accurate at WOT, as the ECU has no means of verifying A/F at WOT (it uses the O2 sensors only at PT). Disconnecting power to the ECU will bring it back to the default settings, and will make it relearn a little quicker, but the end result is the same.
(2) The ECU will make changes to keep settings in line with the crappy factory program...unless you already have a reflash, upon which the ECU will attempt to maintain the A/F settings of the new program.
In short, the factory programming leaves a lot to be desired, and will always be a (severely) limiting factor if left unchanged. This being the case, probably the single most important mod one can make is a proper recalibration of the ECU. Without this, one will doubtfully even reach the potential of the factory hardware, much less take full advantage of aftermarket hardware (the ones that work anyway).
Finally, bolt-ons add power potential only where factory items cause power restrictions, and that appears to be a very finite list for a stock (or nearly stock) car. There are a few items that will improve power, and at least a hundred you don't need. In any case, to get your money's worth, I strongly suggest adding recalibration of the factory ECU to your list of 'must have' mods. If you've already done this, you probably don't need to have it recalibrated for every single item you add...unless that item significantly changes operating conditions or affects WOT A/F.
But, there are limitations:
(1) The adaptations the ECU learns at PT may not be entirely accurate at WOT, as the ECU has no means of verifying A/F at WOT (it uses the O2 sensors only at PT). Disconnecting power to the ECU will bring it back to the default settings, and will make it relearn a little quicker, but the end result is the same.
(2) The ECU will make changes to keep settings in line with the crappy factory program...unless you already have a reflash, upon which the ECU will attempt to maintain the A/F settings of the new program.
In short, the factory programming leaves a lot to be desired, and will always be a (severely) limiting factor if left unchanged. This being the case, probably the single most important mod one can make is a proper recalibration of the ECU. Without this, one will doubtfully even reach the potential of the factory hardware, much less take full advantage of aftermarket hardware (the ones that work anyway).
Finally, bolt-ons add power potential only where factory items cause power restrictions, and that appears to be a very finite list for a stock (or nearly stock) car. There are a few items that will improve power, and at least a hundred you don't need. In any case, to get your money's worth, I strongly suggest adding recalibration of the factory ECU to your list of 'must have' mods. If you've already done this, you probably don't need to have it recalibrated for every single item you add...unless that item significantly changes operating conditions or affects WOT A/F.
