Originally Posted by Joe250

How was the weight added? Was it spread out evenly across the roof or was a large lump placed in one spot? I'm also quite skeptical of the BM videos when it comes to something like this. Having lived in Japan for a year, I can say that the media over there, in all its forms, is stupifyingly pro-Japan. They aren't ones to criticize their countrymen. If MMC says they improved the car, then BM will prove it to us.

Another thing you may have heard about is Japan's consumerism. They put us to shame here in the US. Their economy is built on the belief that everyone should buy the latest and greatest products every few years. They don't hang on to old cars, electronics, even houses. Perfectly working appliances just 2 year old? You'll find them laying in the street on trash days. (I know because I saw it happen constantly.) Industry adds new bells and whistles every year or even develops whole new technologies that answer questions no one was even asking, and the Japanese lap it up.

So it doesn't surprise me that MMC has changed a number of items yielding minimal improvement to vehicle performance. They want their engineers constantly developing new stuff. They want to keep giving people reasons to buy new (hehe - worked on me even!), and they are always making things better, even if only slightly.

But why would MMC go through the trouble to develop an aluminum roof? I'll answer that question with another question. Why would MMC go through the trouble of designing, engineering, testing, and manufacturing the vortex generators? They wouldn't go through all that trouble unless they made a huge difference, right? According to Mitsubishi's own technical literature, here's the big payoff:

"...a 0.006 reduction in both the drag coefficient and lift coefficient.."

Source: http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_03.pdf

Wow! A .006 reduction! Personally, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning to engineer a .006 improvement to anything. However, that is not the way engineering works. Although sometimes huge leaps forward are made at once, most progress is made with small, continual improvements. So this tiny reduction in drag and lift doesn't mean much now, but if they keep finding these year after year, eventually you get a nice slippery, fuel-efficient car that sticks to the road.

But again, my point is not whether or not these changes have made an improvement. My point is how much impact with they have on real-world drivers. And then that leads to asking how much are these improvements worth?

I had to decide between the no-sunroof GSR and the MR. $5,000+ difference at the time I was shopping. What was it going to be like driving the MR that would be better and worth the extra $$$? Roof? Probably wouldn't feel it. Wheels? I could probably feel a slight difference, but I can get a lighter set of wheels for less money going aftermarket. Suspension? Didn't sound like a huge difference (I too read Edmunds.com's review of the MR), but again for less money I could go aftermarket. Vortex generators? Nope. 6-speed? Might be nice, but would it really be that much better than the 5? Not to me. No HID's? I like my HID's but I don't buy cars because of their headlights. That is just sad IMO.

So again, I evaluated the 2 cars and took money into account. I still feel that the MR is not 5 grand better, faster, or better looking, although it certainly is a great car. Others can come to any conclusion they want. It's their money.

Joe
www.joe250.com

Originally Posted by EVO Neil

Steve evo, have you driven an MR? Have you tested the car? At the limit? After a) owning an '03 and being familiar with it's driving dynamics b) spending considerable time testing every variation of USDM Evo and spending every week at the track testing every other vehicle you can think of? Sorry to say different, but I can look at a video of a car and understand what is going on with its handling dynamics and understand the changes. Watch the video, or better yet, drive an MR, and then let's talk over a of course.

Originally Posted by GPTourer

What about the sodium filled valves? The hollow fibers in the carpet? The inverted struts to reduce unsprung weight?

Those are just three of the innovations in the '03 Evolution. As in, each of them by themselves probably don't make that much of a difference, but the car is cumulative, they are constantly trying to tweak it to make it better with what they have. I totally agree with the above statement about the Japanese always trying to make things better, always wanting something new - its one of the reasons their products and goods and services outdo ours in many ways.

But, I see where you are coming from - I just don't agree with it anymore. I used to feel the same way about houshold cleaners and detergents and stuff. Everytime some company claims their stuff is 33% brighter, or gets your floors cleaner then brand X, I figured it was all just a marketing ploy. Then I got an insight into the amount of money companies like Johnson and Johnson spend to keep engineers and chemists on staff just to dream up stuff like that, to tweak their product for that extra edge. And then there's all the consumer groups just waiting with the trial lawyers on retainer to bring class action lawsuits if they lie and mislead consumers by making those false claims.

And that's just for a friggin bottle of Mr. Clean! You want to trivialize the Evo as just being marketing hype? Blasphemy.

Originally Posted by EVO Neil

And don't call me Shirley!

Joe, they added the weight with some of what appears to be magnetic sign material. You know, that thin, flat, white material you see on the sides of realty agents and work vehicles.

Originally Posted by Joe250

Neil,

(In fact, this is a great idea for an article - "GSR vs MR: Can Real World Drivers Detect the Differences?" Do a double-blind study and publish the results. Mmmmm....science.)

Take care,
Joe

Originally Posted by Fourdoor

How do you get magnetic material to stick to aluminum?

Keith