300hp Tuning Cost?
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Hi 
we're talking flywheel horsepower, like the manufacturer, to compare with what the manufacturers quote. Stock is 276 on Evo 7, 6 and 5, 271 on Evo 8.
The repeatedly measured transmission loss in Evo 5, 6 and 7s is 24%, so I'd assume it's the same for the Evo 8 (depending on wheel and tire weight, it could be slightly less ie 23%, but the car is a CT9A, just like the 7, so transmission is the same). That's around 209 - 210 bhp to the wheels.
we're talking flywheel horsepower, like the manufacturer, to compare with what the manufacturers quote. Stock is 276 on Evo 7, 6 and 5, 271 on Evo 8.
The repeatedly measured transmission loss in Evo 5, 6 and 7s is 24%, so I'd assume it's the same for the Evo 8 (depending on wheel and tire weight, it could be slightly less ie 23%, but the car is a CT9A, just like the 7, so transmission is the same). That's around 209 - 210 bhp to the wheels.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: NorCal, Cali
This debate over drivetrain loss has been around for quite some time and I have never really figured out the formula for drivetrain horsepower loss. Just trying to state that you may not get the horsepower you expect on a dyno, with more major modifications. As this is what I have noticed with WRX's and RS-T's.
Here is an example of what I am talking about. The WRX flywheel horsepower if 227, yet on a dyno it measures about 165 at the wheels. Not modify it and at the wheels it makes 250, but the crank is usually around 320. So it isn't really a percentage and nto really a value, but seems to be a little of both.
Though I could be totally wrong for the Lancer EVO VIII as I have no real background in mitsubishi cars except for a Mitsubishi Precis from 1988, he he.
Besides that the flow characteristics of the heads, and headers I am going to bet are not as good as the JDM version because of smog specifications. So getting more horsepower out fo them compared to a JDM wil be a little bit tougher.
This is just stuff I have picked up in the Subaru world and woudl assume a lot applies to the Lancer also.
My $0.02
Here is an example of what I am talking about. The WRX flywheel horsepower if 227, yet on a dyno it measures about 165 at the wheels. Not modify it and at the wheels it makes 250, but the crank is usually around 320. So it isn't really a percentage and nto really a value, but seems to be a little of both.
Though I could be totally wrong for the Lancer EVO VIII as I have no real background in mitsubishi cars except for a Mitsubishi Precis from 1988, he he.
Besides that the flow characteristics of the heads, and headers I am going to bet are not as good as the JDM version because of smog specifications. So getting more horsepower out fo them compared to a JDM wil be a little bit tougher.
This is just stuff I have picked up in the Subaru world and woudl assume a lot applies to the Lancer also.
My $0.02
Evolving Member
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From: Texas
Originally posted by concordmitsunet
well turbanium, simply enough, most fast dsms are run off electronic boost controllers, specifically the greddy profec b when it comes to turbos in the 14b-18g size,
well turbanium, simply enough, most fast dsms are run off electronic boost controllers, specifically the greddy profec b when it comes to turbos in the 14b-18g size,
Show me your evidence of "most" fast dsms run an electronic controller??? Where do you come up with this crap???
many 10-11 second times with this controller and any good website that really knows what they are doing will advocate it, just call www.roadraceengineering.com ... forcedperformance.com ... etc and they'll all tell you the same,
Thats funny, I have spent plenty of money with both shops and I personally KNOW everyone that works at FP and was at the track when they did their testing on several of their turbos!!! BTW, FP & RRE sell MBCs and the one on my car is sold by FP themselves ... Once again you are 
save your obnoxious insults, in fact get over whatever your problem is and take it out on someone else.....
the greddy profec b has three things that a manual boost controller does not that from what i have learned, makes it better for the evo,
so with a turbo this size, you cant just expect a manual boost controller to hold as steady boost, i may be wrong, every application is different,
but if thats not enough for you, then go ahead and tell me why not rather than just talking smack
I just did!!!
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From: Texas
Originally posted by Claudius
Turboniam, I think electronic boost controllers enable you to control the boost much better over the whole rev range, through the gears, start duty, etc. Why do you say a manual is better?
Turboniam, I think electronic boost controllers enable you to control the boost much better over the whole rev range, through the gears, start duty, etc. Why do you say a manual is better?
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From: Texas
Originally posted by boostedwrx
Manual boost controllers do suck. They suck BIG TIME. Have you ever noticed why you need to set your MBC in 3rd or maybe even 4th depending on vehicle????? Because if you set desired boost in a lower gear you will be running super high in 4th or 5th.
Manual boost controllers do suck. They suck BIG TIME. Have you ever noticed why you need to set your MBC in 3rd or maybe even 4th depending on vehicle????? Because if you set desired boost in a lower gear you will be running super high in 4th or 5th.
I also had the same problem at one time, but that was due to my waste gate, not the BC.
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From: Texas
Originally posted by chronohunter
Do you have any dyno pulls (with and without) from guys using propane. I've heard of people using it but have never seen results
Do you have any dyno pulls (with and without) from guys using propane. I've heard of people using it but have never seen results
I haven't really kept up with it latley, but I know there are a few people out there with kits on various different cars... all that I have read seems to be favorable.
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From: Texas
Originally posted by Claudius
No; the restrictor is in a hose that goes to the wastegate actuator. The smaller the inner diameter of that little restrictor, the more boost it will take to open the wastegate. That's why I said you could just hammer on it. In fact, Maxi did that
and he's got 320 bhp in his Evo 5 now (276 bhp stock). Running just under fuel cut level at 1.2 bars.
No; the restrictor is in a hose that goes to the wastegate actuator. The smaller the inner diameter of that little restrictor, the more boost it will take to open the wastegate. That's why I said you could just hammer on it. In fact, Maxi did that
and he's got 320 bhp in his Evo 5 now (276 bhp stock). Running just under fuel cut level at 1.2 bars.
The thing is, you wont get any boost control with that, just a little more boost. If you hammer it too hard, you can get bad overboost and det / engine damage. I'd spend the $40-50 and get a Dawes or equivalent In fact, I'd spend more than that and get an AVC-R to control boost effectively.
Later
Claudius
In fact, I'd spend more than that and get an AVC-R to control boost effectively.Later
Claudius
Originally posted by Turboniam
For less than $50 you can't go wrong with a quality MBC such as the one your mention or one from www.joepmbc.com
For less than $50 you can't go wrong with a quality MBC such as the one your mention or one from www.joepmbc.com
and the manual can't compinsate for the changes in altitude like an electronic (I use the Blitz dual selonoid unit). The amount or air bled needs to change (more air at higher alt.) to keep a constant pressure or you lose even more hp at altitude. I like the simplicity of a manual unit (and price and response) but they don't work well here (Co.)
Last edited by chronohunter; Feb 14, 2003 at 10:23 PM.
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I cant see how a manual boost controller has better "functon" over an electronic one.
As previously stated, you need to set the manual BC up in 4th or 5th gear to make sure it doesnt overboost in the higher gears. This will mean less boost in lower gears. With an electronic BC, you can get the same boost in all gears if you want. I suppose the electronic BC you tried was faulty or not set up completely if it was less good.
As previously stated, you need to set the manual BC up in 4th or 5th gear to make sure it doesnt overboost in the higher gears. This will mean less boost in lower gears. With an electronic BC, you can get the same boost in all gears if you want. I suppose the electronic BC you tried was faulty or not set up completely if it was less good.
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From: Texas
Originally posted by chronohunter
Cant use a manual controler where I live I can drive anywhere from 5200ft to over 10,000+ in a single spirited drive and the manual can't compinsate for the changes in altitude like an electronic (I use the Blitz dual selonoid unit). The amount or air bled needs to change (more air at higher alt.) to keep a constant pressure or you lose even more hp at altitude.
I like the simplicity of a manual unit (and price and response) but they don't work well here (Co.)
Cant use a manual controler where I live I can drive anywhere from 5200ft to over 10,000+ in a single spirited drive
and the manual can't compinsate for the changes in altitude like an electronic (I use the Blitz dual selonoid unit). The amount or air bled needs to change (more air at higher alt.) to keep a constant pressure or you lose even more hp at altitude. I like the simplicity of a manual unit (and price and response) but they don't work well here (Co.)
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From: Texas
Originally posted by Claudius
I cant see how a manual boost controller has better "functon" over an electronic one.
As previously stated, you need to set the manual BC up in 4th or 5th gear to make sure it doesnt overboost in the higher gears. This will mean less boost in lower gears. With an electronic BC, you can get the same boost in all gears if you want. I suppose the electronic BC you tried was faulty or not set up completely if it was less good.
I cant see how a manual boost controller has better "functon" over an electronic one.
As previously stated, you need to set the manual BC up in 4th or 5th gear to make sure it doesnt overboost in the higher gears. This will mean less boost in lower gears. With an electronic BC, you can get the same boost in all gears if you want. I suppose the electronic BC you tried was faulty or not set up completely if it was less good.
I can't say the same through the use of the electronics controllers.
Also, another type of BC I can't stand are the bleeder type manauls... I have a TurboXS dual stage MBC that totally blows that I bought off a friend mine... I've been meaning to sell it... it spikes horribly. FYI
Last edited by Turboniam; Feb 15, 2003 at 05:03 AM.
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From: Walnut Creek, CA
i bought my turbo from forcedperformance, and their fastest times on the similar turbo to the evos are using the greddy profec b electronic boost controller, ask robert, he owns the place,
Edited so this thread doesn't turn into a flame fest AGAIN
Edited so this thread doesn't turn into a flame fest AGAIN
Last edited by RaX; Feb 15, 2003 at 11:25 PM.
It will be interesting when someone actually gets a US-Spec Evo8. At this point it's all just a bunch of guys masturbating to pictures and numbers. I feel sorry for all you guys with such astonomical expectations. Here is a collection of quotes which made me laugh.
So CAI and exhaust give 30hp these days? I gotta get me some of that!
Ah, keep up the good work and keep the comedy comming guys!
I'd say cold air intake and cat back exhaust and you'd be sitting really close to 300hp. If not, really, really close.
I have to agree with 4g63 Attack, a boost controller will probably be the cheapest (less than $50) and easiest way to get the car from 271 to 300 fwhp
don't worry, a stock evo will outhandle a stock STi anyday, anywhere
For less than $1000, I'm sure you can get EVO to 330-340 hp. The BC is a must, but to push the extra PSI even with low octane gas like the 91 out here in CA, you can get a propane injection system...
Last edited by Nzo; Feb 15, 2003 at 11:51 PM.