How you would build 500-650awhp?
So from what I have learned on this site about the magnus 2.4 is by using the 4G64 block you have a 6mm higher deck which allows you to use 156mm rods which will also aid in someone looking to have a higher rev(9,000rpms) considering its a stroked engine. Is this correct?
I know this is all relative to how well the head is built and quility of parts you use. I had planned on using the buschur stage 3, but I am still open to other options. Any suggestions?
Using the 2.0l 4G63 block with a stage 3 head allows you to expand the rpms higher to upwards of 9-10,000rpms. Is this correct?
So will stroking the 4G63 to 2.3l allow you to expand the rpm range the same, more, or less than the 2.4l?
I know this is all relative to how well the head is built and quility of parts you use. I had planned on using the buschur stage 3, but I am still open to other options. Any suggestions?
Using the 2.0l 4G63 block with a stage 3 head allows you to expand the rpms higher to upwards of 9-10,000rpms. Is this correct?
So will stroking the 4G63 to 2.3l allow you to expand the rpm range the same, more, or less than the 2.4l?
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Colorado
You are basically correct. The Magnus 2.4L will allow you to rev higher than a typically 2.3L stroker kit. Magnus also has a 2.4L that's been destroked to 2.1L which makes for an excellent reving enging. However, a well built 2.0L with a good head will handle 9,000rpms. I still prefer the "low end" of a sroked engine even though I sacrifice RPM's. Anything over 8,000 rpms on a 2.3L is pushing it a bit IMO. That being said I've heard of very few blown Evo engines so far whether they be 2.0L, 2.3L, or 2.4L.
I like the Crower due to the fact that they make their own billet crank. The OEM cranks seem to hold up very well but if I'm going to spend the money anyways I'd rather buy the best. At the end of the day you need to decide whether you want a 2.0L or a 2.3L as they drive differently. If at all possible try to get a ride in a stroked Evo and a built 2.0L to see which you prefer.
BTW, I've never installed my RNR/Pauter 4g64 crank. It's been nitrided, heat treated, knife edged, cross drilled, etc. I spent over $2000.00 for it but I'm willing to accept all offers (I just want to get rid of it so feel free to low ball, if it's not to your liking I will refund your money). By the time that RNR finally delivered it my engine build was complete and I couldn't wait for it any longer. I'm still using the TODA 4g64 crank but the RNR crank is excellent. Once this winter arrives I will rebuild my engine using the Crower kit.
Also, the dual charger EVO engine build is done! Tuning will begin once I receive my dog box tranny from Australia. Should be track ready by the middle of July.
From the Magnus site:
EVOLUTION 4-8
EVO stroker
7 bolt 2.3L 2.0L block 7 bolt mega tq lightweight pistons
ver 3 $3500.00
EVO stroker
7 bolt 2.4LR 2.4L 7 bolt biggest displacement and best rod/sroke ratio, lightest weight
ver 4 $4200.00
EVO 7 bolt 2.0L LR
2.0L block 7 bolt lightest possible weight 2.0L
ver 2 $3700.00
EVO 7 bolt 2.1L
7 bolt largest displacement on 88mm stroke, excellent revving highest rod ratio
$3500.00
From the Crower site:
Crower Stroker Kits
Crower is the world's largest manufacturer of high performance crankshafts. We are now offering a billet stroker kit for the Mitsubishi/Talon 4G63 blocks. Instantly turn your 2.0L into a 2.37L by going to 102mm stroke (88mm stock) and 86mm bore (85mm stock). Other combinations also available like 97mm stroke for longer rod ratio, which with 86mm bore equals a 2.25L. Kits include a Crower 4340 steel billet crankshaft (you spec stroke), custom Crower 4340 steel billet rods, custom JE pistons, premium H-11 pins, rings, buttons and Crower system balancing for easy, drop in installation. Due to inconsistencies in the factory blocks and size of stroke, some block clearancing may be required on all applications. Bigger is definitely faster! Allow 16-18 weeks delivery. 50% deposit required.
I like the Crower due to the fact that they make their own billet crank. The OEM cranks seem to hold up very well but if I'm going to spend the money anyways I'd rather buy the best. At the end of the day you need to decide whether you want a 2.0L or a 2.3L as they drive differently. If at all possible try to get a ride in a stroked Evo and a built 2.0L to see which you prefer.
BTW, I've never installed my RNR/Pauter 4g64 crank. It's been nitrided, heat treated, knife edged, cross drilled, etc. I spent over $2000.00 for it but I'm willing to accept all offers (I just want to get rid of it so feel free to low ball, if it's not to your liking I will refund your money). By the time that RNR finally delivered it my engine build was complete and I couldn't wait for it any longer. I'm still using the TODA 4g64 crank but the RNR crank is excellent. Once this winter arrives I will rebuild my engine using the Crower kit.
Also, the dual charger EVO engine build is done! Tuning will begin once I receive my dog box tranny from Australia. Should be track ready by the middle of July.
From the Magnus site:
EVOLUTION 4-8
EVO stroker
7 bolt 2.3L 2.0L block 7 bolt mega tq lightweight pistons
ver 3 $3500.00
EVO stroker
7 bolt 2.4LR 2.4L 7 bolt biggest displacement and best rod/sroke ratio, lightest weight
ver 4 $4200.00
EVO 7 bolt 2.0L LR
2.0L block 7 bolt lightest possible weight 2.0L
ver 2 $3700.00
EVO 7 bolt 2.1L
7 bolt largest displacement on 88mm stroke, excellent revving highest rod ratio
$3500.00
From the Crower site:
Crower Stroker Kits
Crower is the world's largest manufacturer of high performance crankshafts. We are now offering a billet stroker kit for the Mitsubishi/Talon 4G63 blocks. Instantly turn your 2.0L into a 2.37L by going to 102mm stroke (88mm stock) and 86mm bore (85mm stock). Other combinations also available like 97mm stroke for longer rod ratio, which with 86mm bore equals a 2.25L. Kits include a Crower 4340 steel billet crankshaft (you spec stroke), custom Crower 4340 steel billet rods, custom JE pistons, premium H-11 pins, rings, buttons and Crower system balancing for easy, drop in installation. Due to inconsistencies in the factory blocks and size of stroke, some block clearancing may be required on all applications. Bigger is definitely faster! Allow 16-18 weeks delivery. 50% deposit required.
- Crower billet stroker crank (any desired stroke up to 102mm).
- Crower billet stroker rods. Custom length w/Maxi-Light stroker design.
- JE custom pistons. Modified pin boss for longer rod, specify compression (9:1 - 14+:1) & bore size (up to 86mm).
- Premium, H-11 tool steel pins, gapless rings, locks, spacers.
- Works with factory rod and main bearings.
- Crower internal balancing for drop in installation.
Thanks alot 3240! You have given me a bunch of usefull information. YOU ROCK!
Doesn't Magnus sell a dogbox or was it RRE? I could have sworn I seen one on the website. Looked pretty pricey though. Too bad a dogbox isn't street worthy.
Doesn't Magnus sell a dogbox or was it RRE? I could have sworn I seen one on the website. Looked pretty pricey though. Too bad a dogbox isn't street worthy.
Originally Posted by 3240
Also, the dual charger EVO engine build is done! Tuning will begin once I receive my dog box tranny from Australia. Should be track ready by the middle of July.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Originally Posted by EVOONYOASS
Thanks alot 3240! You have given me a bunch of usefull information. YOU ROCK!
Doesn't Magnus sell a dogbox or was it RRE? I could have sworn I seen one on the website. Looked pretty pricey though. Too bad a dogbox isn't street worthy.
Doesn't Magnus sell a dogbox or was it RRE? I could have sworn I seen one on the website. Looked pretty pricey though. Too bad a dogbox isn't street worthy.
Good luck with your car!
Originally Posted by Ludikraut
To give myself more of a safety margin. I'm sure that at <= 25psi the Eagle rods would be fine, but "just in case" I ever get a big a boost spike, I want the stronger rods. Also, porting was mentioned. After looking at the cfm that a 4g63 will flow past 8000rpms, I'm not sure how much the 3071 would benefit from a ported head. It's going to be struggling to keep up past 8500rpms as it is. If I ever step up to a gt35r, then I will definitely port the head and intake.
Also, IIRC, both chronohunter and racerjon agreed that the gt35r was the ultimate road racing setup ... but I also take it that you probably need to be one badass driver to fully take advantage of a setup like that.
l8r)
Also, IIRC, both chronohunter and racerjon agreed that the gt35r was the ultimate road racing setup ... but I also take it that you probably need to be one badass driver to fully take advantage of a setup like that.
l8r)
Originally Posted by EVOONYOASS
Anybody? You don't have to tell me what parts you have how about what compression, rod length on the stroker, what head gasket works better, etc, etc...
...
gofaster87 I was just curious as to what compression and different specs each person decided to go with. That is all. Sorry for the confusion.
Edit: You edited your response before I had a chance to comment about the stroker engine. I understand you can stroke the 2.0 4G63 to 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 or you can just use the 4G64 2.4 and change out the internals to accomodate your needs(compression ratio, rods, billet crank).
Edit: You edited your response before I had a chance to comment about the stroker engine. I understand you can stroke the 2.0 4G63 to 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 or you can just use the 4G64 2.4 and change out the internals to accomodate your needs(compression ratio, rods, billet crank).
Originally Posted by 3240
Magnus doesn't sell a dog box for the Evo yet. Hollinger is making mine with custom gear ratios. Gears 1-3 are straight cut and gears 4 and 5 are helical cut. This helps make it a little more streetable. I really don't mind driving a dog box on the street. I wouldn't want to use one as a daily driver but it really doesn't bother me too much.
Good luck with your car!
Good luck with your car!
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Originally Posted by EVOONYOASS
I thought the dog box had to be slammed into gear every time you shift? Is this correct? I didn't think a dog box was even thought of for street use. Well atleast not for a daily of course. I will have to look and see what website showed a dog box. If memory serves me right I think it was around $4K.
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 705
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From: Colorado
Originally Posted by gofaster87
Eagle rods can more than handle 600+ whp and over 25+psi. Ive heeard of more crowers going than eagle rods.
Originally Posted by BIG3_ETR
gotta talk to the master - switzer. just built evoviiiyou a 600 whp that idles and drives like stock when off the boost. un-f*****g-believable!
Anybody else with a build like this want to chime in? I'm pretty much looking for a review like the one below that 3240 responded with. Just looking for more information to finalize my choices. Thanks for all the help guys because I really do appreciate it.
Originally Posted by 3240
I hit the 600awhp mark awhile back before many of today's options were available such as the AMS, Buschur, RNR kits etc. I regret many of the decisions that I originally made but options at the time were limited. Here's what I've learned and what I'd do differently:
-1st mistake was a TODA 2.3L stroker kit. What a rip off! And to make it worse I bought it from Vivid which has to be the worst vendor that I've ever dealt with, full of sh*t and clueless doesn't begin to describe them. Thank God I used American Express to purchase from them, without the help of Amex I'm not sure I would have ever received the stroker kit. They misrepresented many of the products that I bought from them and would actually give me made up tracking numbers. They said that they had this kit in stock but some how it took them 4 months to deliver it. The Toda pistons are excellent, however the rods are weaker than stock and the crank is basically an OEM 4g64 crank. I replaced the Toda rods with Pauter but used the Toda pistons and crank. It's been a reliable setup but an expensive leason.
I live in Denver and used the car mostly for drag racing. The Denver altitude effects spool time by almost 20% so I wanted the added displacement to help compensate for the effects of high altitude. If I lived at sea level I would have stuck with a built 2.0L for drag but I still think that a stroker and big turbo would be fun in the twisties.
In my opinion the best 2.3L kit available today is made by Crower. The best 2.4L made today is by Magnus with the custom rod length. If I were to start over I'd go with Crower.
The turbo kit that I used was an HKS 3240. Keep in mind that the AMS 35R and RNR 35R were not yet available. The HKS kit worked extremely well for me, no cracked manifold, etc. The spool time for such a large turbo was excellent. The only downside was the $6500.00 price tag. Today I'd go with the AMS 35r. The RNR 35r looks nice but their service is terrible. I bought a custom 4g64 crank from them (I believe that they had it built by Pauter) and a two week lead time turned into 3 months. Every week I received the same "It will ship tomorrow" response. I can handle long lead times but I won't tolerate flat out lies. I've bought several products from AMS including a stage 3 head and their service and knowledge is excellent. I'd highly recommend them to anyone.
I used an Exedy dual disk clutch and had great results with it. I believe that it is a great clutch if properly installed. Once again, my options were limited back then. Today I use an ATS triple carbon/carbon clutch but my horsepower is now well above 600whp.
I had a Buschur FMIC (excellent vendor and great product). RMR exhaust which was one of the first available for the Evo. I've been very pleased with it.
I also went with the Autronic standalone and couldn't be happier. I've found it to be more user friendly than the AEM but they're both good products. It all comes down to what the person doing the tuning is most familiar with, I don't think that you can go wrong with either product. Don't let anyone fool you though. The drivability with a standalone is different as compared to a stock ECU or flash. Anyone who has tried to start their car when it's 20F outside will no exactly what I mean. Their are a few quirks that you have to learn to live with when you go to a standalone. Many people have no problem living with these "quirks" but I wouldn't want to drive a 600HP Evo everyday. Whenever I drive it to work I wind up spilling my quad Venti vanilla low foam half no fat milk Starbucks Latte on my dress shirt once that turbo spools.
I've run an 11.4 @ 125 MPH at 5800 ft above sea level with this setup. The car in now in Philly being built again. I was amazed at the difference in performance between sea level and altitude. The 1.22 correction factor that is used when dyno tuning is fairly accurate IMO up here. I had my car dnyoed in Denver with a 1.22 correction factor and in Philly with no correction factor and the results on a dynojet were within 5%. The HKS maxed out at 27psi up here but easily made 32psi without additional tuning at sea level. It's a whole different ball game when you have air.
In summary with 600whp being your goal:
1. Crower 2.3L or Magnus 2.4L
2. AMS 35r turbo kit
3. AMS supporting mods (FMIC, exhaust, piping, etc.)
4. HKS 272 cams
5. AMS fuel system upgrade
6. AMS head work
7. Autronic or AEM standalone
8. ATS or Exedy triple carbon/carbon clutch
9. Be prepared for a tranny upgrade and TC upgrade (Team Ripp)
10. Make sure that you can afford to fix things because they will break.
Best vendors IMO:
1. Z1auto
2. AMS
3. Buschur
Avoid IMO:
1. Vivid
2. RNR
Good luck!
-1st mistake was a TODA 2.3L stroker kit. What a rip off! And to make it worse I bought it from Vivid which has to be the worst vendor that I've ever dealt with, full of sh*t and clueless doesn't begin to describe them. Thank God I used American Express to purchase from them, without the help of Amex I'm not sure I would have ever received the stroker kit. They misrepresented many of the products that I bought from them and would actually give me made up tracking numbers. They said that they had this kit in stock but some how it took them 4 months to deliver it. The Toda pistons are excellent, however the rods are weaker than stock and the crank is basically an OEM 4g64 crank. I replaced the Toda rods with Pauter but used the Toda pistons and crank. It's been a reliable setup but an expensive leason.
I live in Denver and used the car mostly for drag racing. The Denver altitude effects spool time by almost 20% so I wanted the added displacement to help compensate for the effects of high altitude. If I lived at sea level I would have stuck with a built 2.0L for drag but I still think that a stroker and big turbo would be fun in the twisties.
In my opinion the best 2.3L kit available today is made by Crower. The best 2.4L made today is by Magnus with the custom rod length. If I were to start over I'd go with Crower.
The turbo kit that I used was an HKS 3240. Keep in mind that the AMS 35R and RNR 35R were not yet available. The HKS kit worked extremely well for me, no cracked manifold, etc. The spool time for such a large turbo was excellent. The only downside was the $6500.00 price tag. Today I'd go with the AMS 35r. The RNR 35r looks nice but their service is terrible. I bought a custom 4g64 crank from them (I believe that they had it built by Pauter) and a two week lead time turned into 3 months. Every week I received the same "It will ship tomorrow" response. I can handle long lead times but I won't tolerate flat out lies. I've bought several products from AMS including a stage 3 head and their service and knowledge is excellent. I'd highly recommend them to anyone.
I used an Exedy dual disk clutch and had great results with it. I believe that it is a great clutch if properly installed. Once again, my options were limited back then. Today I use an ATS triple carbon/carbon clutch but my horsepower is now well above 600whp.
I had a Buschur FMIC (excellent vendor and great product). RMR exhaust which was one of the first available for the Evo. I've been very pleased with it.
I also went with the Autronic standalone and couldn't be happier. I've found it to be more user friendly than the AEM but they're both good products. It all comes down to what the person doing the tuning is most familiar with, I don't think that you can go wrong with either product. Don't let anyone fool you though. The drivability with a standalone is different as compared to a stock ECU or flash. Anyone who has tried to start their car when it's 20F outside will no exactly what I mean. Their are a few quirks that you have to learn to live with when you go to a standalone. Many people have no problem living with these "quirks" but I wouldn't want to drive a 600HP Evo everyday. Whenever I drive it to work I wind up spilling my quad Venti vanilla low foam half no fat milk Starbucks Latte on my dress shirt once that turbo spools.
I've run an 11.4 @ 125 MPH at 5800 ft above sea level with this setup. The car in now in Philly being built again. I was amazed at the difference in performance between sea level and altitude. The 1.22 correction factor that is used when dyno tuning is fairly accurate IMO up here. I had my car dnyoed in Denver with a 1.22 correction factor and in Philly with no correction factor and the results on a dynojet were within 5%. The HKS maxed out at 27psi up here but easily made 32psi without additional tuning at sea level. It's a whole different ball game when you have air.
In summary with 600whp being your goal:
1. Crower 2.3L or Magnus 2.4L
2. AMS 35r turbo kit
3. AMS supporting mods (FMIC, exhaust, piping, etc.)
4. HKS 272 cams
5. AMS fuel system upgrade
6. AMS head work
7. Autronic or AEM standalone
8. ATS or Exedy triple carbon/carbon clutch
9. Be prepared for a tranny upgrade and TC upgrade (Team Ripp)
10. Make sure that you can afford to fix things because they will break.
Best vendors IMO:
1. Z1auto
2. AMS
3. Buschur
Avoid IMO:
1. Vivid
2. RNR
Good luck!
Originally Posted by EVOONYOASS
This is just a simple question for the people who have already done this, thanks.
I know how to build a 600awhp car. I never said that I didn't know how. I simply asked who has and if they would care to explain the path they chose and why. I did not ask for people to respond as to how they would build it. I simply asked for those who have or are currently building one.
Second, if you don't want to help a fellow evom member out and share your build path then don't. I can respect that. If you don't care to go into great detail because you are afraid I might steal an idea. Sure, but I don't think there is any miracle parts out there that everybody doesn't already know about.
This is what I am planning unless someone steers me in a different direction:
2.4 stroker (AMS)
Stage 3 head (buschur)
GSC 272 cams
GT35R kit (AMS)
Pistons (Ross)
Rods (Pauter)
FMIC + piping (buschur)
AEM
Exedy Triple
8?? injectors
HKS DLI 2 (buschur)
3in exhaust (buschur)
methanol kit (buschur)
TB (buschur)
ported intake mani (buschur)
This is just a basic list to give some of you an idea as to what I am looking for. Please explain any parts that you may have had issues with and switched to another.
I know how to build a 600awhp car. I never said that I didn't know how. I simply asked who has and if they would care to explain the path they chose and why. I did not ask for people to respond as to how they would build it. I simply asked for those who have or are currently building one.
Second, if you don't want to help a fellow evom member out and share your build path then don't. I can respect that. If you don't care to go into great detail because you are afraid I might steal an idea. Sure, but I don't think there is any miracle parts out there that everybody doesn't already know about.
This is what I am planning unless someone steers me in a different direction:
2.4 stroker (AMS)
Stage 3 head (buschur)
GSC 272 cams
GT35R kit (AMS)
Pistons (Ross)
Rods (Pauter)
FMIC + piping (buschur)
AEM
Exedy Triple
8?? injectors
HKS DLI 2 (buschur)
3in exhaust (buschur)
methanol kit (buschur)
TB (buschur)
ported intake mani (buschur)
This is just a basic list to give some of you an idea as to what I am looking for. Please explain any parts that you may have had issues with and switched to another.