Lately a lot of threads have had conflicts and flaming. I think the long wait for the EVO is starting to get everyone on edge. Dang it hurry up Mitsu before someone gets killed!!!

 

Unless the Evo is a 2cylinder car, it would need to be making exactly 544hp for there to be any need to worry about this, if indeed this is true.

This is exactly the first time I've heard the USDM STi's predicted time of 5.1secs being termed as optimistic. In fact, unless dictionary definitions have changed, the word that's been used is best described as "pessimistic". As in, nearly everybody expects it to be faster than that. Given that it's faster than the 2.0-litre UK STi with the 300hp PPP upgrade is around 4.6seconds, a USDM STi with more low-end torque only doing 5.1 would be better termed "wishful thinking".

I had thought that the Japanese situation was quite well known by now. If not, a recap: The government and the manufacturers have what is essentially a verbal agreement not to exceed 280ps, or 276hp. This was set as a limit because a gov. official decided that cars have no need of power in excess of that (really).

However, there is no government checking of cars power output - the same as the states. So while on paper roughly half of the Japanese domestic market vehicles make "280ps", the reality is far different. What really happens is that automakers shoot for that goal, and if it's within 20-30ps, and this is the kicker, either way, they aren't going to worry about it.

This has led to certain cars, namely the Skyline GT-R, Evo and STi, being underrated for power on paper. There's no way a GT-R that weighs 200kgs (440lbs) more than an Evo with exactly the same "power" is going to post better quarter-mile times. And independent dyno testing has proven that point, with GT-R's generally making around 320ps, Evo's making around 300-305ps, and STi's making around 295-300ps. But there's also a variety of "280ps" cars that more likely make around 265-270ps at best. It's all about marketing...

To be honest, if MMC could have released the American Evo with 300hp, they would have. I suspect it's purely to do with California emission laws that they went with the tune it's supposed to come in.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

 

Sorry, Street. I have to call BS on this one. There is nothing in the FMVSS, no EPA regulation, and a search of the CFR yields nothing. And there's no logic to it, either.

Please give me your source (in private if need be), but I can not find any basis for this assertion.

 

i had already asked for that information and he never responded

 

I meant 136 hp per liter.

It really has very little to do with emissions, but, more to do with classification of vehicles. And, as for federal law making sense, remember that there are a ton of federal laws that are slated at helping the domestics maintain dominence... for instance the tariff on imported trucks, which are archaic, and make very little sense in today's world.

WSB, Longfury, PM me and I'll tell you the source. It does need to be kept on the down low, else I would have answered your questions earlier.

 

And, this is really the last public thing I'm going to post on this matter:

When the pieces don't fit, everyone questions. I give a bit of information that DOES make all the pieces fit, and people say "bull****" or don't believe it. I really don't have a problem not believed, but, I would like to state for the record that I really have no reason to not be telling the truth, and if I thought for a second that the information was incorrect, then I wouldn't give it out at all, in public or private. Truth is, I've been sitting on this information for close to a month, just because I knew that while it answered certain questions, it would be nay-sayed, or blindly accepted without much in the way of discussion.

Here's the pieces that this helps fit:

1) The E8 supposedly has a revamped turbo, ECU, and exhaust from the E7, yet it loses between 5 (claimed) to 22-25(real) horsepower. Also, take into account that it runs a higher amount of peak boost than the 7, and there is supposed to be that much less hp?

2) The STi, a WRC-vehicle, has a 2.5L in the US market, but, a 2.0L everywhere else. Why?

3) There is "no reason to underrate" the Evo in the US, yet, it's blatant by the HKS dyno that Mitsu did, in fact, underate the Evo.

This bit of information makes all the pieces fit. I obviously let off the contended points, and left the strongest questions that I believe points enough to the answer I pointed to.

 

I read that the revamped turbo is made of inconel.
The VII turbo was made of titanium?
Iconel is heavier (more mass) than titanium.
Could this be the power loss?

If it does 60 in less than 5 seconds I am happy.
Mitsubishi's website still claims LESS THAN 5 SECONDS.
I don't care if the car has 12 or 1200 claimed horsepower as long as it is fast.

 

I am not trying to pick on you, but rather trying to separate facts from speculation.

Your points above only lead to speculation. Are you trying to say that 1 + 2 + 3 = government regulations restriciting hp/liter? To me, it merely shows your guess as to why the US EVO has less hp. In much the same way, I can also speculate that poiints 1 and 2 are related to US emissions and gas quality. And point 3 has yet to be confirmed by HKS themselves. No disrepect to the person that posted the original information, I just don't blindly believe something just because someone says it's so. When I see the results from the source that is one thing, but when it is 3rd hand Internet forum information that is something else.

Now you mentioned in a previous post that you will PM people with information concerning your source. If you don't mind, I would like to be privy to such details, though I am not sure why any type of government regulation has to be kept secret.

The only logical conclusion that I can come up with is that Mitsubishi is NOT underrating the EVO, and that it is as they claim, 271hp. Until it is PROVEN, not speculated, otherwise, I see no reason to believe the car is underrated.

 

**On other news tonight, several people were killed from so called "PMs" with attached explosives. The seemingly accounts of kills were from the long awaited Mitsubishi Lancer Evoltuion, that was post to hit markets early 2003 but was delayed to the middle of march. Some eye witnesses reported that "the people just couldn't handle it anymore", and turned against each other. It started early feburary when people were waiting for the car had learned of the pushed back date to march began to "flame" each others posts as an outlet to for thier anger. Some turned to drugs, some turned to masturbation, but several people turned to destruction. As the weeks past in feburary, several users of evolutionm.net began a plot to destroy people out of the insanity brought to them from the so called "wait". Several "PMs" were loaded with high amounts of explosives and transferred over to innocent posters as gifts which in turn took there lives.... This is all we have on the topic and more will be brought to you on the hour in the hour... Channel 4 news, back to you bob.**

 

Are rotary engines classified differently then? Rx-8 gets 250hp out of 1.3L which is 192hp per liter.

 

 

The titanium did end up on the seven in most markets except for Japan......ralliart was responsible for changing this before a new imported car was sold.( for what reason I do not know)..this is why EI 7's have a titanium turbo.....because there ones are imported from the netherlands somewhere through Ralliart Sweden I believe...as far as I know Japanese domestic 7 cars came with the Skibum and not the titanium

 

Just one question - if there was indeed some limit on hp/litre, then why is the USDM Lancer Evo down on torque? If they were simply underrating hp similar to the situation in Japan, they could still report the torque figure - which is 284ft/lbs in Japan, vs. 273 in USDM spec.

Look, all conspiracy theories aside, and yes, we did land on the moon, even the marketing viewpoint would kill this theory. MMC knows very well the impact hp numbers have on the marketplace, and how important it is. Given my experiences with 2.0-litre motors when they are forced to drink from the lesser gas stations in Japan, I will say that MMC simply had to tune for the gas quality in the States, and thus the hp figures. The Evo can easily run at it's original 305(ish) hp as in Japan, but make sure of the gas quality when doing so.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen