hehe hope this doesnt start a fight
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
From: Carlsbad
Originally posted by WestSideBilly
The level of ignorance in these posts (both by joe cancer and other members) is incredibly high. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.
The level of ignorance in these posts (both by joe cancer and other members) is incredibly high. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post.
[QUOTE]The S2000 is just as capable as the Evolution in a corner. The Evo will obviously pull out of the exit faster, and thus probably be considered a faster cornering car.[QUOTE]
I assume you mean with mods the S2000 is just as capable as the Evo in a corner. If you mean out of the box then you're mistaken. The S2000 is a nice car and handles very well. But in every cornering category the Evo beats it hands down. Better brakes, stability, pulls more G's, and exits faster all lead to much faster cornering times. Yes the S2000 handles good. With a better driver it could win in this category. With equally skilled drivers it loses. Period.
[QUOTE]You can get 2 golf bags in the trunk of an S2000 if you try. One bag is easy.[QUOTE]
Interesting reason to choose between two sports cars. This should've been omitted from the beginning. But if people HAVE to compare the Evo's trunk could swallow a 1/3 of an S2000 whole.
[QUOTE]Autocrossing is mostly driver anyway, so this is a lousy comparison. As a whole, the Evo is faster, but it will not be in the same class. The Evo will end up in T1 (SCCA) - is it faster than a Z06 or a 911?[QUOTE]
Probably true. Is it faster than those 2 no. Can it keep up with them, certainly. Main reason being is due to it's incredible cornering. It'll lose the straightaway battles for sure but gain ground in the twisties. You can say auto-x is driver ability which it is when you're looking for the win. But if you're comparing cars and THEIR ability against each other it's only fair to assume equally skilled drivers are in both. THEN which comes out ahead. It's not a lousy comparison if the formula is setup right which you overlooked.
[QUOTE]What was the S2000 all about? Hmm - handling, technology, style. Did anyone mention handling? [QUOTE]
Too bad it falls short of the less expensive Evo.
[QUOTE]The Best Handling videos are, uh, not really a good basis... Yes, they're all very good drivers, going fast, but they are not driving 10/10 and they are not pushing the cars 100% - even the drivers admit that sometimes they just parade around (really fast). Sorta like F1
[QUOTE] First off it's Best MOTORING. Secondly if you watch them they do push the cars and themselves pretty damn hard most of the time. If crashing into your fellow test driver in an effort to win isn't pushing it I don't know what is. (Not intentionally hitting them of course. Just pushing the envelope)
Not hatin just don't like people being know-it-alls. Let people have their opinion. This thread never should've made it past page 1 like I said in a previous post. Just a tool looking to start some trouble. Every enthusiast board has them.
Peace
Originally posted by octalon7
I encourage the use of a dictionary when deciding to buy a $30K+ car.
I encourage the use of a dictionary when deciding to buy a $30K+ car.
I'm glad we Americans could entertain you Claudius. Hope your computer screen isn't dripping with your French crappa frappa latte
Oh, and WestSideBilly. I know it doesn't specifically say this in your post, but I am in no way endorsing the idea of cutting springs...ever.
E in LA
[QUOTE]The S2000 is just as capable as the Evolution in a corner. The Evo will obviously pull out of the exit faster, and thus probably be considered a faster cornering car.[QUOTE]
I assume you mean with mods the S2000 is just as capable as the Evo in a corner. If you mean out of the box then you're mistaken. The S2000 is a nice car and handles very well. But in every cornering category the Evo beats it hands down. Better brakes, stability, pulls more G's, and exits faster all lead to much faster cornering times. Yes the S2000 handles good. With a better driver it could win in this category. With equally skilled drivers it loses. Period.
Braking is about even - Evo has superior brakes but 400 more lbs to haul down. Exiting acceleration is pure power, which no doubt the Evo wins. Can't beat 273 lb-ft with 153 lb-ft! As for the stability, once I can get my hands on a broken in Evo8, I'm going to benchmark the 2 cars in a valid test to compare cornering stability (the skid pad and slalom are mostly bull**** tests, but are easy to perform and fun to talk about). In strict cornering (essentially, ability to generate lateral force), I suspect these two cars are very equal. The Evo will win because of the power factor though.
[QUOTE]You can get 2 golf bags in the trunk of an S2000 if you try. One bag is easy.[QUOTE]
Interesting reason to choose between two sports cars. This should've been omitted from the beginning. But if people HAVE to compare the Evo's trunk could swallow a 1/3 of an S2000 whole.
I wouldn't use it as a basis (especially since I don't golf much), but someone posted a patently false statement, which I corrected. You're right, the Lancer/Evolution's trunk is quite large.
[QUOTE]Autocrossing is mostly driver anyway, so this is a lousy comparison. As a whole, the Evo is faster, but it will not be in the same class. The Evo will end up in T1 (SCCA) - is it faster than a Z06 or a 911?[QUOTE]
Probably true. Is it faster than those 2 no. Can it keep up with them, certainly. Main reason being is due to it's incredible cornering. It'll lose the straightaway battles for sure but gain ground in the twisties. You can say auto-x is driver ability which it is when you're looking for the win. But if you're comparing cars and THEIR ability against each other it's only fair to assume equally skilled drivers are in both. THEN which comes out ahead. It's not a lousy comparison if the formula is setup right which you overlooked.
The Z06 will kick the **** out of an Evo, except on a VERY tight course (where even S2000s can run with them). Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.
[QUOTE]What was the S2000 all about? Hmm - handling, technology, style. Did anyone mention handling? [QUOTE]
Too bad it falls short of the less expensive Evo.
There are other factors in a car But yes, the Evo is an awesome value - which is why we're all sitting here jizzing over it.
[QUOTE]The Best Handling videos are, uh, not really a good basis... Yes, they're all very good drivers, going fast, but they are not driving 10/10 and they are not pushing the cars 100% - even the drivers admit that sometimes they just parade around (really fast). Sorta like F1[QUOTE]
First off it's Best MOTORING. Secondly if you watch them they do push the cars and themselves pretty damn hard most of the time. If crashing into your fellow test driver in an effort to win isn't pushing it I don't know what is. (Not intentionally hitting them of course. Just pushing the envelope)
There was an interview with a couple of the drivers... I don't remember which two cars or which two drivers, but one of them admitted he wasn't pushing. I want to say it was an NSX and an S2000 (the S2000 was "winning" which isn't likely), and the NSX driver admitted he was parading it because he didn't want to crash just to pass the S2000. I'm pulling this from memory, so the cars are probably wrong.
Not hatin just don't like people being know-it-alls. Let people have their opinion. This thread never should've made it past page 1 like I said in a previous post. Just a tool looking to start some trouble. Every enthusiast board has them.
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, as I am the first to admit I don't know jack **** about a lot of things. Most things I refuted weren't opinion, they were "facts" that had no factual basis. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - which is why the "the S2000 sucks" posts were left alone...
Peace
Something I can agree with!
I assume you mean with mods the S2000 is just as capable as the Evo in a corner. If you mean out of the box then you're mistaken. The S2000 is a nice car and handles very well. But in every cornering category the Evo beats it hands down. Better brakes, stability, pulls more G's, and exits faster all lead to much faster cornering times. Yes the S2000 handles good. With a better driver it could win in this category. With equally skilled drivers it loses. Period.
Braking is about even - Evo has superior brakes but 400 more lbs to haul down. Exiting acceleration is pure power, which no doubt the Evo wins. Can't beat 273 lb-ft with 153 lb-ft! As for the stability, once I can get my hands on a broken in Evo8, I'm going to benchmark the 2 cars in a valid test to compare cornering stability (the skid pad and slalom are mostly bull**** tests, but are easy to perform and fun to talk about). In strict cornering (essentially, ability to generate lateral force), I suspect these two cars are very equal. The Evo will win because of the power factor though.
[QUOTE]You can get 2 golf bags in the trunk of an S2000 if you try. One bag is easy.[QUOTE]
Interesting reason to choose between two sports cars. This should've been omitted from the beginning. But if people HAVE to compare the Evo's trunk could swallow a 1/3 of an S2000 whole.
I wouldn't use it as a basis (especially since I don't golf much), but someone posted a patently false statement, which I corrected. You're right, the Lancer/Evolution's trunk is quite large.
[QUOTE]Autocrossing is mostly driver anyway, so this is a lousy comparison. As a whole, the Evo is faster, but it will not be in the same class. The Evo will end up in T1 (SCCA) - is it faster than a Z06 or a 911?[QUOTE]
Probably true. Is it faster than those 2 no. Can it keep up with them, certainly. Main reason being is due to it's incredible cornering. It'll lose the straightaway battles for sure but gain ground in the twisties. You can say auto-x is driver ability which it is when you're looking for the win. But if you're comparing cars and THEIR ability against each other it's only fair to assume equally skilled drivers are in both. THEN which comes out ahead. It's not a lousy comparison if the formula is setup right which you overlooked.
The Z06 will kick the **** out of an Evo, except on a VERY tight course (where even S2000s can run with them). Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.
[QUOTE]What was the S2000 all about? Hmm - handling, technology, style. Did anyone mention handling? [QUOTE]
Too bad it falls short of the less expensive Evo.
There are other factors in a car
But yes, the Evo is an awesome value - which is why we're all sitting here jizzing over it. [QUOTE]The Best Handling videos are, uh, not really a good basis... Yes, they're all very good drivers, going fast, but they are not driving 10/10 and they are not pushing the cars 100% - even the drivers admit that sometimes they just parade around (really fast). Sorta like F1
[QUOTE] First off it's Best MOTORING. Secondly if you watch them they do push the cars and themselves pretty damn hard most of the time. If crashing into your fellow test driver in an effort to win isn't pushing it I don't know what is. (Not intentionally hitting them of course. Just pushing the envelope)
There was an interview with a couple of the drivers... I don't remember which two cars or which two drivers, but one of them admitted he wasn't pushing. I want to say it was an NSX and an S2000 (the S2000 was "winning" which isn't likely), and the NSX driver admitted he was parading it because he didn't want to crash just to pass the S2000. I'm pulling this from memory, so the cars are probably wrong.
Not hatin just don't like people being know-it-alls. Let people have their opinion. This thread never should've made it past page 1 like I said in a previous post. Just a tool looking to start some trouble. Every enthusiast board has them.
I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, as I am the first to admit I don't know jack **** about a lot of things. Most things I refuted weren't opinion, they were "facts" that had no factual basis. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - which is why the "the S2000 sucks" posts were left alone...
Peace Something I can agree with!
Originally posted by atlvalet
Oh, and WestSideBilly. I know it doesn't specifically say this in your post, but I am in no way endorsing the idea of cutting springs...ever.
E in LA
Oh, and WestSideBilly. I know it doesn't specifically say this in your post, but I am in no way endorsing the idea of cutting springs...ever.
E in LA
Even at that, I've seen the quality of engineering and testing that goes into aftermarket suspension systems. Many of them leave a bit to be desired
, although some are quite good. I'll say this - you get what you pay for.I shouldn't even call them systems, since most are just a shorter spring with a higher rate and an adjustable damper (which wouldn't be needed if they tuned it right in the first place). The problem is that the rest of the geometry doesn't change just by putting in a shorter spring, so you're taking your suspension out of the linear area of operation and forcing it to be in the non-linear/bump stop regime. Great!
I think it was King Motorsports who was talking about the potential snap-oversteer with the s2000 suspension when you start messing with things. At least that's what I remember (and it only happened when pushing the car near it's limits). The suspension would load, and then suddenly break loose.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: LA, CA
Originally posted by WestSideBilly
Cutting a spring is about the worst thing you can do to a car, handling and safety wise. Well, maybe running on your rims would be worse
Cutting a spring is about the worst thing you can do to a car, handling and safety wise. Well, maybe running on your rims would be worse
there are many, many schools of thought on these kinds of things, so assuredly, anyone can find evidence to the contrary. i'm not exactly suggesting that someone go cutting up their stock springs before doing some thorough analysis on what they'd like to accomplish or what the potentially negative ramifications of actions like there would be, but like i said, there are a few schools of thought out there that can have similarly-aimed results.
wow. i feel OT in this thread. come to think of it, one of my project partners ended up taking that book. seeing as it is pretty cheap, i may have to re-invest. it is good for a lot of background info (that i'm sure a lot of people around here already know already).
-K
p.s. playing devil's advocate to my original advocacy via the devil, the book is assuredly slanted towards the racing world, and not so much consumer safety.
Well, I'm sure there are exceptions about cuttting springs, but SINCE you're from LA...
Most of those honda boys cut their springs with stock dampers!! That is not good. I see these guys bouncing their way down the 10 all the time doing about 80 m.p.h.
Besides, on the track is different. Some of those track cars are so stiffly sprung, it would be dangerous for them to be out on the road (like, a high speed on ramp with rough pavement...wait, I was just in the left lane, now I'm in the right lane. How'd that happen?)
Besides. you're not running heim joints in your suspension, are you?
Most of those honda boys cut their springs with stock dampers!! That is not good. I see these guys bouncing their way down the 10 all the time doing about 80 m.p.h.
Besides, on the track is different. Some of those track cars are so stiffly sprung, it would be dangerous for them to be out on the road (like, a high speed on ramp with rough pavement...wait, I was just in the left lane, now I'm in the right lane. How'd that happen?)
Besides. you're not running heim joints in your suspension, are you?
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: LA, CA
haha..fair 'nuff. those "bouncers" crack me up...as long as they don't cause any damage. then i bet it wouldn't be so funny.
naw (to the heim joints). just stock dampers and springs on my bouncy wagon. :P
-K
naw (to the heim joints). just stock dampers and springs on my bouncy wagon. :P
-K
No, your example was talking about cut springs for some kind of track application. I was just trying to make a point with the heim joints comment.
BTW, I by no means am an expert on the issue. I'm just learning slowly but surely like everyone else.
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Wow - I just read alll of this! What a waste of time - just like eating chips - can't stop at just one.
Here is my 2¢ - if anyone cares.
These 2 cars should not even be compared to each other.
One (the Evo) is coming from a Rally based background and is designed to be sidways around every corner - on gravel.
The other (S2000) was Honads latest and greatest technology put into a convertable, and designed as a track car. (Hondas show piece if you will)
Notice how niether of them were designed as drag racers! - all of the "low 13's" crap makes me ill.
If you want to buy one of them - and can afford it - go buy the one that makes YOU the happiest - they are both great cars (add 350z / STi / blah / blah. . . to the same list)
One more thing - I bet our buddy "joe" also goes to the S2000 board and says how great the Evo is = Troll.
And for the record - I own and S2000 and will be buying an Evo (as well as keeping my S2000) as soon as the Canadian gov't gets it's haed out of it's
_ _ _ and allowes it into Canada.
Sorry - rants over.
Here is my 2¢ - if anyone cares.
These 2 cars should not even be compared to each other.
One (the Evo) is coming from a Rally based background and is designed to be sidways around every corner - on gravel.
The other (S2000) was Honads latest and greatest technology put into a convertable, and designed as a track car. (Hondas show piece if you will)
Notice how niether of them were designed as drag racers! - all of the "low 13's" crap makes me ill.
If you want to buy one of them - and can afford it - go buy the one that makes YOU the happiest - they are both great cars (add 350z / STi / blah / blah. . . to the same list)
One more thing - I bet our buddy "joe" also goes to the S2000 board and says how great the Evo is = Troll.
And for the record - I own and S2000 and will be buying an Evo (as well as keeping my S2000) as soon as the Canadian gov't gets it's haed out of it's
_ _ _ and allowes it into Canada.
Sorry - rants over.
We had a customer with an 03 S2000 come in and dropped $6k on a comptech supercharger kit along with a comptech cat-back. We installed it. The kit worked great, everything fit perfect. It sounded bad *** when the car was running. The sad thing is the car makes NO TORQUE. It was a dog untill 6k rpm. Stupid hondas. www.****onhonda.com
4 life
4 life
Last edited by evo 8 ya; Oct 17, 2003 at 09:50 AM.
