Daveyd

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Seeing how he/she is the man/woman..

gtr

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https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...threadid=16115

Daveyd

iTrader: (1)

I know of the 2 types of dynos that were done, trust me..I've been readin theses threads over and over. I was just curious if the mothership could shed any light on the subject...

theaphextwin84

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is this supposed to be a threat or something .... I mean there are two dyno threads ... one saying 180 one saying what like 250? How did you get ALL THESE 180 WHP THREADS? .... seems like your trying to call out the mothership for an unfounded reason ... only one vishnu dyno thread. now let's say the vishnu ran low HP, and the other dyno ran high HP you even them out you get about 225 which seems about right for the evo... besides ... the real test is when you get behind the wheel and pump it

Daveyd

iTrader: (1)

A threat?? ummm nooo...I just wanted a response from this user..from my understanding he is a Mitsu dude so I wanted to know his take on the subject. And in my previous posts I was also inquiring about real world track times. I am no calling anyone out, I wanted a response from a Mitsu source..tis all

PS..when i said "all these" threads, I meant the MEGA thread on here as well as threads on other sites...

enthusiast

The 250 hp thread is bunk. Remeber, that was based on converting the EVO to FWD and dynoed on at FWD/RWD dyno. I would go with numbers that are closer to Shiv. Shiv is a known dependable tuner in the WRX world. In fact, Gary Sheehan the USTCC car driver that placed 2nd last year behind Team BMW consults with him frequently and is sponsered by Shiv.

Remeber, the WRX world has had its share of pseudo tuners that put out crazy numbers to generate business. In reality, some of them were paying cash to get a piece of paper with a graph that gave them bragging dyno rights.

Bottom line: Stick with Shiv since he dynos other cars on the AWD dyno and can make apple to apple comparisons. I'm sure he will later dyno the STi under the same conditions when it becomes available.

Zilch321

I was under the impression that all the numbers posted by car companies were flywheel BHP ratings. In which case no one is going to dyno an Evo and get 27XBHP at the wheel. With the car being AWD I was also under the impression the number would decrease even more from that. I however do not remember the math needed to guestimate the flywheel HP to Wheel HP.

That being said, am I missing something or do people just not understand how AWD cars work in relation to power to the ground? Hell maybe I'm the person that's confused and you guys can hook me up and help me get my learn on.

KK

iTrader: (4)

The 250hp dyno isn't bunk, just a different way of measuring power. Those that are comparing with Vishnu's dyno numbers really shouldn't, since the dynos are completely different and one setup has much less drivetrain losses.

You can compare some dyno numbers from Shiv's dynos of other vehicles with his dyno of their Evo and do the same with Automotosports dyno numbers. That would give a fairer comparison.

Give it some time and these guys will get to the bottom of this. Either way, remember that this IS the 4G63 engine in the JDM Evo. We could be talking a poor ECU and MAF setup that's costing us tons of hp... easily fixed by qualified tuners out there.

Mark

KK

iTrader: (4)

You're right about manufacturer numbers being flywheel, but the controversy stems from the lower than expected WHP numbers of the Evo on Vishnu's Dyno Dynamics dynomometer. Their Evo put down about 180 whp, while an Audi S4 put down similar peak numbers. Since the Audi was a 250hp car, we're assuming the Evo may in the same range and thus, slightly underrated.

At this point the verdict is still up in the air. Vishnu Performance are hard at work trying to determine whether this is was a fluke and what the reasons may be either way.

Mark

ru4real

Yes, OEMs advertise flywheel horsepower ratings. Sometimes the advertised numbers are underestimated (good for us), and sometimes they are overestimated (bad for us). The reasons to do so can be debated at length, but it is usually related to how the car is marketed or where it fits into a manufacturer's vehicle lineup.

Yes, no one will dyno a stock Evo and get 270-ish BHP at the wheels.

Yes, the power at the wheels will be significantly less than at the flywheel, AWD more so than FWD or RWD.

Many people use a 24% power loss correction to estimate the difference between flywheel hp and wheel hp in AWD cars like the Evo.

mitsuguy

I have only one question... And this is after reading through 19 pages of what a USDM EVO will put down to the ground...

Now remember, I know that Vishnu's dyno is great for comparison sakes, and after putting in the right gas, it's right at 30 hp difference, not 20, but what I question is Vishnu's knowledge of Mitsubishi stuff... I know, I know, he might be the ub3r-tuner of WRX's, but just because they compete against each other does not mean they are similar to tune...

Couple things I noted in his original statement - "EVO's use a frequency based MAF" - yup, they sure do, just like almost EVERY other Mitsubishi on the planet (my '91 talon did, my '93 3000 does, my 2nd gen MAS I put in my '91 Talon does)... He also states about the "active knock correction", now I have to admit that I have no experience with Lancer's, but on DSM's, every one since 1989 has had knock detection and correction built in... In fact, two ways of reducing knock - boost control solenoid would reduce pressure, and ignition timing can be retarded when knock is sensed... (i would fully think the Lancer's since day 1 have this as well, though I may be wrong) He also states that the EVO's are susceptible to MAF misreadings due to intake modifications... In my experience, so long as the MAF itself is not altered, it will be accurate, remove airfoils and such, and it goes retarded though.

One note on his original findings is that maybe the ECU had sensed knock and thus retarded timing and lowered boost levels (as found in one car).

-Cody
(yes, I'm new to this board, but not new to DSM's and other Mitsubishi products. Have been in the 3000GT scene for over 7 years, and 8 years in the DSM arena (i'm on my 3rd DSM)...

BADWRX

iTrader: (1)

Tuning forced EFI is tuning forced EFI. Your argument holds no water. Start with forming a good fuel map, and then play with timing to produce the most power without detonation!

I do know that it is most likely that the EJ20 can handle more det without popping than the 4g63. I have read horror stories of the 4g63's blowing up with a very small amount pinging.

BADWRX

iTrader: (1)

Amen Claudius!

BobbyD

the usdm evo8's that vishnu has dynoed put out 180whp.. (havent seen the graph but that is what is being said) and the dyno that they have and tested the evos on is a dyno dynamics..
--bobby