To Dave Buschur
A few comments...
First, feldguy, I fully appreciate the position you find yourself in. I left home at a time when most of my peers were attending college. I gave college a "try" but at the time I was immature and really didn't understand how to make the most of the situation and succeed in that environment. I ended up dropping out of school after one semester. One thing led to another and I found myself 500 miles from where I grew up working for a relatively small family owned business. It only took six years of working there but I eventually realized that there was no future working in the industry I was in and there was no way I would ever assume any postion of leadership in the company. Aside from the owner I was the smartest guy in the building and I looked at the guys working on the shop floor and saw that there was no way I would find myself in their shoes by the time I was their age. I decided that it was time to find greener pastures. For me, the field I excelled in was information technology and that was where I moved to.
Second, the answer to the question of whether or not you need an advanced degree can be either a complicated one or a simple one. Surely you can succeed without one. Eight years after I left that sh1tty job I find myself in a positon of leadership at a Fortune 500 company. I hold no college degree. I literally work side by side with peers and subordinates that hold degrees and advanced degrees from many well respected schools including those from the Ivy League. While I'm proud of my accomplishments I don't mention this to to brag. I'm the oddball here where I work. I certainly don't brag of my lack of education to the people I work with. I was very, very fortunate to catch the early part of the IT wave that began to swell in the late 90s. In fact, in the course of doing my job, when I recruit people to work on my team, I make sure I find the smartest and best educated people I can afford and I always try to find someone smarter than I am. I was lucky. I managed to get my toe in the door and from there it was hard work and perseverance to prove myself. I almost look at the opportunity I stumbled upon sort of like winning the lottery. It's very unlikely that I could replicate the circumstances again.
I guess my point is, it appears to me that many, not necessarily all, but many of the most successful tuning shops are run by engineers and are basically engineering firms masquerading as tuning shops. Places like AMS, Full Race and APR (Audi & Porsche) come to mind. I'm talking about the real "movers and shakers" in the industry. Buschur Racing comes to mind as probably the most notable exception but I think most of us will freely admit that the Dave's success has been largely fueled by his innate mechanical genius. For all we know Dave may have faded into obscurity if he had attended college. I feel that if you truely want to succeed in the "tuning" or race car fabrication business you should pursue a degree in engineering. There is really no downside to it. This country is in need of talented engineers. I suspect you'll always be able to get a job and it will most likely be a job in the field you seem to love.
Good luck with your quest. No matter how you look at it there is no "get rich quick" path ahead of you.
First, feldguy, I fully appreciate the position you find yourself in. I left home at a time when most of my peers were attending college. I gave college a "try" but at the time I was immature and really didn't understand how to make the most of the situation and succeed in that environment. I ended up dropping out of school after one semester. One thing led to another and I found myself 500 miles from where I grew up working for a relatively small family owned business. It only took six years of working there but I eventually realized that there was no future working in the industry I was in and there was no way I would ever assume any postion of leadership in the company. Aside from the owner I was the smartest guy in the building and I looked at the guys working on the shop floor and saw that there was no way I would find myself in their shoes by the time I was their age. I decided that it was time to find greener pastures. For me, the field I excelled in was information technology and that was where I moved to.
Second, the answer to the question of whether or not you need an advanced degree can be either a complicated one or a simple one. Surely you can succeed without one. Eight years after I left that sh1tty job I find myself in a positon of leadership at a Fortune 500 company. I hold no college degree. I literally work side by side with peers and subordinates that hold degrees and advanced degrees from many well respected schools including those from the Ivy League. While I'm proud of my accomplishments I don't mention this to to brag. I'm the oddball here where I work. I certainly don't brag of my lack of education to the people I work with. I was very, very fortunate to catch the early part of the IT wave that began to swell in the late 90s. In fact, in the course of doing my job, when I recruit people to work on my team, I make sure I find the smartest and best educated people I can afford and I always try to find someone smarter than I am. I was lucky. I managed to get my toe in the door and from there it was hard work and perseverance to prove myself. I almost look at the opportunity I stumbled upon sort of like winning the lottery. It's very unlikely that I could replicate the circumstances again.
I guess my point is, it appears to me that many, not necessarily all, but many of the most successful tuning shops are run by engineers and are basically engineering firms masquerading as tuning shops. Places like AMS, Full Race and APR (Audi & Porsche) come to mind. I'm talking about the real "movers and shakers" in the industry. Buschur Racing comes to mind as probably the most notable exception but I think most of us will freely admit that the Dave's success has been largely fueled by his innate mechanical genius. For all we know Dave may have faded into obscurity if he had attended college. I feel that if you truely want to succeed in the "tuning" or race car fabrication business you should pursue a degree in engineering. There is really no downside to it. This country is in need of talented engineers. I suspect you'll always be able to get a job and it will most likely be a job in the field you seem to love.
Good luck with your quest. No matter how you look at it there is no "get rich quick" path ahead of you.
Last edited by propellerhead; Dec 9, 2005 at 10:08 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Lenexa, KS
I would look into further schooling. A friend of mine was working in a race shop building roll cages, etc... He is now enrolled at Pittsburgh State University in Pittsburgh, Kansas. They have an automotive program with links to GM, Toyota, etc... Might be something to look into.
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 146
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From: illinois chicago suburbs
Wow, it is like looking into a mirror, only not. I suppose I am in the same perdicament as you. All I want is to be happy, my job sucks I make enough to get by but just barely. I can fix anything, like literally I am a great Tech. but every where I went to offered me $10.00 an hour and a 40 hour week, hmmmm well they charge me out at 69.00, 75.00, 125.00 and 250.00 dollars an hour, I make better than rate on every job I do, I am no mathamatical prodigy but these numbers dont add up to me.
I went to auto tech classes and left one class before I would have gotten my degree (long story) . Now I am 25 and very close to miserable. I dont know what to tell you about your dream but this, you are not alone with your wishes. I also wish to own or at least be employed by a shop such as AMS, Buschur, ect. (and make decent money) well good luck.
follow your dreams, if you try there is a chance while if you don't you fail 100% of the time.
I went to auto tech classes and left one class before I would have gotten my degree (long story) . Now I am 25 and very close to miserable. I dont know what to tell you about your dream but this, you are not alone with your wishes. I also wish to own or at least be employed by a shop such as AMS, Buschur, ect. (and make decent money) well good luck.
follow your dreams, if you try there is a chance while if you don't you fail 100% of the time.
Great post and good luck to you Feldguy, hopefully you can take this idea where you want it to go.
Unsurprisingly many people here have similar aspirations of entering the industry. I've personally toyed with the idea of opening a shop with a few friends and fleshed out a practical business model for it but as DSMotorsport stated the industry is saturated. With the proper capital backing I feel that I (and im sure many others) have ideas which would positively influence what to me is a decayed industry, both in quality of customer support and appeal/accessability to the mainstream owner base.
Unfortunately, any good new idea will simply being swallowed up and rebranded by the more established competitors so unless you have a lot of cash to spend and a reasonable local customer base things will be difficult at best.
As for me, I've basically abandoned the idea of starting or being part of any type of performance shop. I'm currently studying to go to law school and from my perspective, atleast in my area, my love for the hobby is best supported by stable outside income and unpressured work strictly on my own car.
Unsurprisingly many people here have similar aspirations of entering the industry. I've personally toyed with the idea of opening a shop with a few friends and fleshed out a practical business model for it but as DSMotorsport stated the industry is saturated. With the proper capital backing I feel that I (and im sure many others) have ideas which would positively influence what to me is a decayed industry, both in quality of customer support and appeal/accessability to the mainstream owner base.
Unfortunately, any good new idea will simply being swallowed up and rebranded by the more established competitors so unless you have a lot of cash to spend and a reasonable local customer base things will be difficult at best.
As for me, I've basically abandoned the idea of starting or being part of any type of performance shop. I'm currently studying to go to law school and from my perspective, atleast in my area, my love for the hobby is best supported by stable outside income and unpressured work strictly on my own car.
Originally Posted by IXMR
Wow, it is like looking into a mirror, only not. I suppose I am in the same perdicament as you. All I want is to be happy, my job sucks I make enough to get by but just barely. I can fix anything, like literally I am a great Tech. but every where I went to offered me $10.00 an hour and a 40 hour week, hmmmm well they charge me out at 69.00, 75.00, 125.00 and 250.00 dollars an hour, I make better than rate on every job I do, I am no mathamatical prodigy but these numbers dont add up to me.
I went to auto tech classes and left one class before I would have gotten my degree (long story) . Now I am 25 and very close to miserable. I dont know what to tell you about your dream but this, you are not alone with your wishes. I also wish to own or at least be employed by a shop such as AMS, Buschur, ect. (and make decent money) well good luck.
follow your dreams, if you try there is a chance while if you don't you fail 100% of the time.
I went to auto tech classes and left one class before I would have gotten my degree (long story) . Now I am 25 and very close to miserable. I dont know what to tell you about your dream but this, you are not alone with your wishes. I also wish to own or at least be employed by a shop such as AMS, Buschur, ect. (and make decent money) well good luck.
follow your dreams, if you try there is a chance while if you don't you fail 100% of the time.
Fury....keep my email on file...we should talk. Feldguy2002@yahoo.com
Might take a bit of work, but honestly....I need to learn some tricks of the trade, but Ive done everything myself short of rebuilding transmission. Some with success....but the guy who said if you dont fail 100% of the time....you know. Take care
Might take a bit of work, but honestly....I need to learn some tricks of the trade, but Ive done everything myself short of rebuilding transmission. Some with success....but the guy who said if you dont fail 100% of the time....you know. Take care
feldguy,
Well this was directed at me but I never saw it until someone sent me a link.
To be honest there isn't much I can say that everyone else hasn't already said.
Opening a shop in this day and age is tough. I was lucky enough to start buiding parts and racing DSM's back in 1989. I had no desire to open a shop, I was a full time steel worker had just gotten out of the Army and was making good money.
My story is I started making parts for my own car as nobody else did. People saw the parts on my car and started to ask. I got involved in the MDSOG (Mitsubishi club) and started writing for them. From there it just snowballed out of control. I was making better parts than the few big name companies at lower prices and going faster.
I graduated High school only and barely did at that. I absolutely, 100% HATED school.
There are 9 guys here, none of us have any education further than high school. My father is one of the smartest people you will ever meet, he didn't even graduate high school. My brother has gone to quite a few technical schools as he is a Certified Master Technician. My wife is the exception who is an ace in school and is currently going to school for nursing.
Anway, to me it is amusing to me to watch all the new shops open and then close. I have had wholesalers of our parts call and give me business lessons and talk there Master Degrees in business to me. I don't know what a profit margin is suppose to be but I know what a checkbook that has a zero balance means! haha
Bottom line is any of us can tell you what you should or shouldn't do but if you are like me in the end it won't matter what anyone says. A man is going to do what HE thinks he should and be done with it. Fail or not.
Good luck with whatever your choice is.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Well this was directed at me but I never saw it until someone sent me a link.
To be honest there isn't much I can say that everyone else hasn't already said.
Opening a shop in this day and age is tough. I was lucky enough to start buiding parts and racing DSM's back in 1989. I had no desire to open a shop, I was a full time steel worker had just gotten out of the Army and was making good money.
My story is I started making parts for my own car as nobody else did. People saw the parts on my car and started to ask. I got involved in the MDSOG (Mitsubishi club) and started writing for them. From there it just snowballed out of control. I was making better parts than the few big name companies at lower prices and going faster.
I graduated High school only and barely did at that. I absolutely, 100% HATED school.
There are 9 guys here, none of us have any education further than high school. My father is one of the smartest people you will ever meet, he didn't even graduate high school. My brother has gone to quite a few technical schools as he is a Certified Master Technician. My wife is the exception who is an ace in school and is currently going to school for nursing.
Anway, to me it is amusing to me to watch all the new shops open and then close. I have had wholesalers of our parts call and give me business lessons and talk there Master Degrees in business to me. I don't know what a profit margin is suppose to be but I know what a checkbook that has a zero balance means! haha
Bottom line is any of us can tell you what you should or shouldn't do but if you are like me in the end it won't matter what anyone says. A man is going to do what HE thinks he should and be done with it. Fail or not.
Good luck with whatever your choice is.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
feldguy,
Well this was directed at me but I never saw it until someone sent me a link.
To be honest there isn't much I can say that everyone else hasn't already said.
Opening a shop in this day and age is tough. I was lucky enough to start buiding parts and racing DSM's back in 1989. I had no desire to open a shop, I was a full time steel worker had just gotten out of the Army and was making good money.
My story is I started making parts for my own car as nobody else did. People saw the parts on my car and started to ask. I got involved in the MDSOG (Mitsubishi club) and started writing for them. From there it just snowballed out of control. I was making better parts than the few big name companies at lower prices and going faster.
I graduated High school only and barely did at that. I absolutely, 100% HATED school.
There are 9 guys here, none of us have any education further than high school. My father is one of the smartest people you will ever meet, he didn't even graduate high school. My brother has gone to quite a few technical schools as he is a Certified Master Technician. My wife is the exception who is an ace in school and is currently going to school for nursing.
Anway, to me it is amusing to me to watch all the new shops open and then close. I have had wholesalers of our parts call and give me business lessons and talk there Master Degrees in business to me. I don't know what a profit margin is suppose to be but I know what a checkbook that has a zero balance means! haha
Bottom line is any of us can tell you what you should or shouldn't do but if you are like me in the end it won't matter what anyone says. A man is going to do what HE thinks he should and be done with it. Fail or not.
Good luck with whatever your choice is.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Well this was directed at me but I never saw it until someone sent me a link.
To be honest there isn't much I can say that everyone else hasn't already said.
Opening a shop in this day and age is tough. I was lucky enough to start buiding parts and racing DSM's back in 1989. I had no desire to open a shop, I was a full time steel worker had just gotten out of the Army and was making good money.
My story is I started making parts for my own car as nobody else did. People saw the parts on my car and started to ask. I got involved in the MDSOG (Mitsubishi club) and started writing for them. From there it just snowballed out of control. I was making better parts than the few big name companies at lower prices and going faster.
I graduated High school only and barely did at that. I absolutely, 100% HATED school.
There are 9 guys here, none of us have any education further than high school. My father is one of the smartest people you will ever meet, he didn't even graduate high school. My brother has gone to quite a few technical schools as he is a Certified Master Technician. My wife is the exception who is an ace in school and is currently going to school for nursing.
Anway, to me it is amusing to me to watch all the new shops open and then close. I have had wholesalers of our parts call and give me business lessons and talk there Master Degrees in business to me. I don't know what a profit margin is suppose to be but I know what a checkbook that has a zero balance means! haha
Bottom line is any of us can tell you what you should or shouldn't do but if you are like me in the end it won't matter what anyone says. A man is going to do what HE thinks he should and be done with it. Fail or not.
Good luck with whatever your choice is.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
In the automotive field its ideally a balance of understanding of theory and hands on know ability. Some are visionary enough to dervive theory from hands on experience and its unfortunate that those individuals may be marginalized for lack of academic credentials.
Finish college, its not worth throwing everything in. Even if you finish college and want to do this you can... but it's very hard to go back to school once you start working full time.
And you may find that making your hobby your job makes it not fun at all. It's great to work on your own car on your own time but working on other people's cars and their problems is something else.
And you may find that making your hobby your job makes it not fun at all. It's great to work on your own car on your own time but working on other people's cars and their problems is something else.
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