do they sell these in the US?
Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
^Really? I tell ya what you drive a stock one then drive one with that little lip thingy and tell me if you notice a difference at 100.
I can gaurantee you it is pointless. Just like the cf hoods, and the vortex generator. Its not going to be the difinitive factor in winning a race at 160mph. Its pointless to have period.
Its like putting a wing/spoiler on a fwd car.
I can gaurantee you it is pointless. Just like the cf hoods, and the vortex generator. Its not going to be the difinitive factor in winning a race at 160mph. Its pointless to have period.
Its like putting a wing/spoiler on a fwd car.
You get the
award of the day.
Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
Very well noted. May I ask where you work as an engineer? My uncle is a mechanical engineer. He is the head mechanical engineer for Lockheed Martin in his division. He heads up a program called CCTT(aka Close Combat Tactical Training) its basically test equipment for the DoD. In a nutshell they are high priced combat video games.
I myself am a aeronautical engineer student studying in the field of kenetics, aerospace propulsion, and of course aerodynamics in the field of aeronautics.
I am currently an intern for Boeing Int within SPAWAR. And hope to someday when I graduate land a job with my uncle or with Boeing.
Well just curious. I was hoping maybe its a small world and you worked in my unit or something.
To elaborate on your thesis, the lip theoretically does much more than just create downforce on a vehicle. You are forgetting that when this downforce occurs not only is it creating the stability element that enforces the vehicles grounding integrity which enables it to handle much much better and precisely, but because of this will cause the tires themselves to last a little longer. The more out of control you are the more slippage on the tires which means the more friction and whenever we have friction we have wear. Also the less tires the car has to use the less money is invested also the less times it has to take pit stops. Also because of the downforce and the increased stability of the vehicle the driver will end entering and exiting turns better and faster. Braking will be minimized. Same with the fuel.
Like I said, I know all the dynamics of this piece of equipment. However, it is hardly niticeable and it will not be used to its potential for daily use. Its more of a show part for the car.
I myself am a aeronautical engineer student studying in the field of kenetics, aerospace propulsion, and of course aerodynamics in the field of aeronautics.
I am currently an intern for Boeing Int within SPAWAR. And hope to someday when I graduate land a job with my uncle or with Boeing.
Well just curious. I was hoping maybe its a small world and you worked in my unit or something.
To elaborate on your thesis, the lip theoretically does much more than just create downforce on a vehicle. You are forgetting that when this downforce occurs not only is it creating the stability element that enforces the vehicles grounding integrity which enables it to handle much much better and precisely, but because of this will cause the tires themselves to last a little longer. The more out of control you are the more slippage on the tires which means the more friction and whenever we have friction we have wear. Also the less tires the car has to use the less money is invested also the less times it has to take pit stops. Also because of the downforce and the increased stability of the vehicle the driver will end entering and exiting turns better and faster. Braking will be minimized. Same with the fuel.
Like I said, I know all the dynamics of this piece of equipment. However, it is hardly niticeable and it will not be used to its potential for daily use. Its more of a show part for the car.
My opinion on this piece, is that for most people it would be more of a show piece than anything else. However, if you install this lip, a vortex generator, and a rear diffuser, the three pieces will add together to decrease lift on the rear end and possibly make a difference that is quite noticable to most drivers (although that may be due to the diffuser more than anything else).
-Paul
Originally Posted by PVD04
Unfortunately I don't get to play with fun things like airplanes. I work for a small engineering consulting firm in Illinois. I graduated from Princeton with a Mechanical Engineering degree in 2004, and all mechanical engineers are required to take both fluid mechanics and fluid dynamics. We don't go as far into fluids as an aeronautical engineer, but we learn enough to speak intelligently on the subject.
My opinion on this piece, is that for most people it would be more of a show piece than anything else. However, if you install this lip, a vortex generator, and a rear diffuser, the three pieces will add together to decrease lift on the rear end and possibly make a difference that is quite noticable to most drivers (although that may be due to the diffuser more than anything else).
-Paul
My opinion on this piece, is that for most people it would be more of a show piece than anything else. However, if you install this lip, a vortex generator, and a rear diffuser, the three pieces will add together to decrease lift on the rear end and possibly make a difference that is quite noticable to most drivers (although that may be due to the diffuser more than anything else).
-Paul
Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
Well of course its about style which is what my point is. And btw, a widebody kit does much more for the aerodynamic balance of a vehicle than a 5mm lip does. If you want to equivocate the difference in cfm^2 area of air mass of the differences of the 2 we can.
O and btw, that has nothing to do with mechanical engineering. Aeronautical engineering would be more suitable for such a diatribe.
O and btw, that has nothing to do with mechanical engineering. Aeronautical engineering would be more suitable for such a diatribe.
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,815
Likes: 24
From: Davidson, NC
I know that on Indy cars at IMS an 1/8th inch more or less gurney flap or wickerbill which ever you want to call it is a significant aerodynamic change.
Grant it our cars aren't ever traveling anywhere near the speed of those car and the wing is veiled by the roof of our cars so it does not see near the air flow the open wheel car gets but, it would definitely help increase down force generated by the wing. Enough to notice probably not but, every little bit helps. And it looks cool IMO.
Grant it our cars aren't ever traveling anywhere near the speed of those car and the wing is veiled by the roof of our cars so it does not see near the air flow the open wheel car gets but, it would definitely help increase down force generated by the wing. Enough to notice probably not but, every little bit helps. And it looks cool IMO.
Funny, after all that high fallutin' talk about the wicker bill, tires, wear, friction, pit stops blah blah blah, none of these "rocket scientists" mentiond the added drag that will be associated with the extra downforce.
Hmm, suppose that's why interns don't get paid.
Hmm, suppose that's why interns don't get paid.
Originally Posted by Cirrusly Evolvd
Well thanks for the heads up but you completely avoided my question. You stated that it would be completely pointless to install....I asked you to prove it, not give us your resume. So back to my original statement, if you don't like the style of it, good for you. But don't criticize someone for thier taste in accessories.
No I didnt. If you had taken the time out fo your busy day to read my posts thoroughly instead of nitpicking what you wanted out of them you would see where I adressed your question in a very organized and detailed manor. A matter of fact you will probably agree with me once you read them.
Also I didn't criticize anyone I simply stated that this piece of accessory is pointless to have for daily use. And for about the same price depending on who you go to you could get a flash which will give you more bang for the buck.
Originally Posted by dadriva
Funny, after all that high fallutin' talk about the wicker bill, tires, wear, friction, pit stops blah blah blah, none of these "rocket scientists" mentiond the added drag that will be associated with the extra downforce.
Hmm, suppose that's why interns don't get paid.
Hmm, suppose that's why interns don't get paid.
In my earlier post I detailed the effects it had on braking which also refers to the increased form of drag. Drag is directly related to assisting of the braking effect on any vehicle even an aircraft, it allows the wheel to be mechanically braked with a decreased chance of skidding.
O and btw, some interns dont get paid. However, in my case I get paid very well. It depends on who you work for and what line of work you are in.
