Road rage on the way home tonight!
what's up with the police? you went in to the police station and there's no one there? you ought to be kidding, where the heck were they, and on top of that, it took them 15 minutes before they get to you after you get to the police station, that's crazy. glad I don't live near there, talking about protection. but glad you and your son did not get hurt at the end. close call man.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Cincinnati/Dayton
C&I = careless and imprudent
In the Military world, yes you shoot to incapacitate. In the civilian world you shoot to kill. Say you would have shot this guy in the leg, he can now sue you civily and win. Thats what lawyers have turned this country into. So if your going to shoot someone kill them, dead people don't hire lawyers.
In the Military world, yes you shoot to incapacitate. In the civilian world you shoot to kill. Say you would have shot this guy in the leg, he can now sue you civily and win. Thats what lawyers have turned this country into. So if your going to shoot someone kill them, dead people don't hire lawyers.
Good to hear you used some of dem l33t skilzz to keep things "Safe" (as much as can be, with that type of driving on said roads)
Even better to hear that all is well, though it's kinda wack nothing is happening to the prementioned aggresser.
Even better to hear that all is well, though it's kinda wack nothing is happening to the prementioned aggresser.
Fusion 7,
When you said "You shoot to kill", I new right then & there that you have no "real world experience" with employing deadly force(at least there's no evidence to believe so). Reason being is this, in a court room of law, if You attempted to incapacitate and unfortunately the perpatrator was killed do to his failure to stop the attack, you would have a "reasonable" defence in the eyes of a jury. I never would use those words"shoot to kill", due to the fact that they can & will be used against you, that's why I put "wink,wink" at the end of my statement. Obviously we train to "nutralize" our opponent as quickly as possible, i.e. multiple paired shots, read "double taps". when I was asked how many times I would shoot a man charging towards my principal (general I was protecting) armed only with a knife, I replied that I would continue shooting into the target until he stopped his forward momentum, and re-load if needed and re-engage, that is in efect "shooting to kill", we just use different words, CYA!
BTW,
When I did VIP details, I was tought that my vehicle was my primary weapon (3/4 4x4 Suburban) and that I should always employ it 1st before attempting to use my side arm or SMG. Therefore, when a person intentionally attempts to cause me to run off the road, I consider this to be a provocation of an extreme degree. In addition, throwing a glass bottle at a vehicle is also an attempt to cause the opperator to loose control of the vehicle, thus causing serious bodily injury, and/or death. (Please note, I'm not refering to an accidental or even a braven attempt to cut me off, I would simply blow that off as i have in the past. I'm refering to what this guy did, repeatedly, in a very violent manner, but I think I already made that clear).
I realize that I made a decission that some may not aggree with, and that if given that choice again I would do differently, however, I was not willing that this guy should get away with such a violent act of aggression, as my wife and sons drive on those same roads too. If I didn't follow thru, he would have gone on and pulled that same chit or worse with someone else. Now he has been put on notice and there is arecord of this incident, if he tries this crap again with someone else (which I'm sure he will!) it will be much easier to prosecute, than if there was no record of this incident. Not to mention that I have an established reason to use deadly force should he be so foolish to ever attempt same again, he wont be so fortunate!
Bottom line, I stand by my decission to pursue!
De oppresso de Libre ! (if my memory serves my correctly)
When you said "You shoot to kill", I new right then & there that you have no "real world experience" with employing deadly force(at least there's no evidence to believe so). Reason being is this, in a court room of law, if You attempted to incapacitate and unfortunately the perpatrator was killed do to his failure to stop the attack, you would have a "reasonable" defence in the eyes of a jury. I never would use those words"shoot to kill", due to the fact that they can & will be used against you, that's why I put "wink,wink" at the end of my statement. Obviously we train to "nutralize" our opponent as quickly as possible, i.e. multiple paired shots, read "double taps". when I was asked how many times I would shoot a man charging towards my principal (general I was protecting) armed only with a knife, I replied that I would continue shooting into the target until he stopped his forward momentum, and re-load if needed and re-engage, that is in efect "shooting to kill", we just use different words, CYA!
BTW,
When I did VIP details, I was tought that my vehicle was my primary weapon (3/4 4x4 Suburban) and that I should always employ it 1st before attempting to use my side arm or SMG. Therefore, when a person intentionally attempts to cause me to run off the road, I consider this to be a provocation of an extreme degree. In addition, throwing a glass bottle at a vehicle is also an attempt to cause the opperator to loose control of the vehicle, thus causing serious bodily injury, and/or death. (Please note, I'm not refering to an accidental or even a braven attempt to cut me off, I would simply blow that off as i have in the past. I'm refering to what this guy did, repeatedly, in a very violent manner, but I think I already made that clear).
I realize that I made a decission that some may not aggree with, and that if given that choice again I would do differently, however, I was not willing that this guy should get away with such a violent act of aggression, as my wife and sons drive on those same roads too. If I didn't follow thru, he would have gone on and pulled that same chit or worse with someone else. Now he has been put on notice and there is arecord of this incident, if he tries this crap again with someone else (which I'm sure he will!) it will be much easier to prosecute, than if there was no record of this incident. Not to mention that I have an established reason to use deadly force should he be so foolish to ever attempt same again, he wont be so fortunate!
Bottom line, I stand by my decission to pursue!
De oppresso de Libre ! (if my memory serves my correctly)
Last edited by Sgt Blamo; Dec 22, 2006 at 09:22 PM.
Trust me, the thought DID cross my mind! I still want to go find him, but I wont, it's over as far as I'm concerned, unless he starts something, then I'll finish it, permanently!
Sarge,
Glad you're okay. Glad your family is okay. Friggin people on the road make me hate...and I hate to hate. Your story is an eye opener. Too many times, I've had my wife and son in the car - and run across idiots like that. I count my blessings that nothing ever transpired as your story did. I think I need to be more cautious on the road. You never know what mental state some idiot is that pisses you off.
I'm still curious how this fella kept up with your outrageous EVO as well as the story states.
You know what I want for Christmas, the flipping train horn.
http://www.hornblasters.com/vide.php
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=hornblasters
If it didn't require a 20 pound compressor to run it, it would already be installed.
Again, glad your safe...now start planning a winter/spring Deal's Gap trip...I need another good weekend.
Glad you're okay. Glad your family is okay. Friggin people on the road make me hate...and I hate to hate. Your story is an eye opener. Too many times, I've had my wife and son in the car - and run across idiots like that. I count my blessings that nothing ever transpired as your story did. I think I need to be more cautious on the road. You never know what mental state some idiot is that pisses you off.
I'm still curious how this fella kept up with your outrageous EVO as well as the story states.
You know what I want for Christmas, the flipping train horn.
http://www.hornblasters.com/vide.php
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=hornblasters
If it didn't require a 20 pound compressor to run it, it would already be installed.
Again, glad your safe...now start planning a winter/spring Deal's Gap trip...I need another good weekend.
I thought you were done with the subject? We agree to disagree...
And why are you comparing the civilian world to the military?
Don't assume I have no "real world" experiance. You would be surprised at the things I have done and what line of work I work in.
And why are you comparing the civilian world to the military?
Don't assume I have no "real world" experiance. You would be surprised at the things I have done and what line of work I work in.
Last edited by Fusion7; Dec 22, 2006 at 09:46 PM.
i think this story is a good example of taking things too far.
first of all from a legal standpoint you have to be able to prove stuff. you and your kid's word against some ******* isn't gonna hold up in court and that's waht it's all about. if someday you're being chased and you try to tell hte cops the truth but they believe the person in the other car with their witness you'll have an appreciation for this.
secondly... there are ******* drivers all the time. police aren't going to respond fast enough ever for you to catch anyone. the only thing you can do is evade and protect yourself. they tell you this in traffic school even. there's nothing you can do. police can't respond to every *** hole driver on the road, you just have to hope that they get pulled over someday and get theirs in the form of a fine. would you wish worse on them??? of course ******* drivers are dangerous etc... but people with habits like that will undoubtedly reap their grapes of wrath.
drunk drivers are a different story and even then, the police still have a hard to responding fast enough.
the best thing to have done was let it go... we as drivers in the united states encounter too many disrespectful people, but what can you do? you mention carrying a gun, you gonna shoot 'em all? and you woulda had a hard time explaining it in the end wouldn't you? even if no shots were fired...you'd be the gun toting hot headed stalking driver on the cell phone with the police and no camra to prove anything.
justice comes in the form of eyes, not arms.
it's good that there's a record of everything and all now. but the thought of guns and being cavalier is not "responsible"
first of all from a legal standpoint you have to be able to prove stuff. you and your kid's word against some ******* isn't gonna hold up in court and that's waht it's all about. if someday you're being chased and you try to tell hte cops the truth but they believe the person in the other car with their witness you'll have an appreciation for this.
secondly... there are ******* drivers all the time. police aren't going to respond fast enough ever for you to catch anyone. the only thing you can do is evade and protect yourself. they tell you this in traffic school even. there's nothing you can do. police can't respond to every *** hole driver on the road, you just have to hope that they get pulled over someday and get theirs in the form of a fine. would you wish worse on them??? of course ******* drivers are dangerous etc... but people with habits like that will undoubtedly reap their grapes of wrath.
drunk drivers are a different story and even then, the police still have a hard to responding fast enough.
the best thing to have done was let it go... we as drivers in the united states encounter too many disrespectful people, but what can you do? you mention carrying a gun, you gonna shoot 'em all? and you woulda had a hard time explaining it in the end wouldn't you? even if no shots were fired...you'd be the gun toting hot headed stalking driver on the cell phone with the police and no camra to prove anything.
justice comes in the form of eyes, not arms.
it's good that there's a record of everything and all now. but the thought of guns and being cavalier is not "responsible"
Last edited by trinydex; Dec 23, 2006 at 11:24 AM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 763
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From: round here
See now if that would've happened to me I would've passed a cop while trying to elude the guy and the cop would have arrested me for careless and wreckless. The guy would have drove by laughing at me in cuffs- in case you can't tell I am not a lucky kinda guy but it's good to know that you and your fam are safe
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
From: Palo Alto
Following someone home is inviting a confrontation no matter how reckless you think they were being. You should have simply changed lanes or pulled off and let the dude speed off. At the very least, you shouldn't have continued to follow him to get "justice."
He was a jerk and an *******, but that doesn't mean that a confrontation is the answer.
He was a jerk and an *******, but that doesn't mean that a confrontation is the answer.
Who's being cavalier? I don't think some of you guys would have scored very highly on reading comprehension.
With over 24 years of driving and several spent conducting law enforcement opperations, I can tell you that this was no ordinary jerk just venting anger, this guy was dengerous and I don't tend to shy away from danger. I concur that I should've handled it defferently, in that my son was with me, hind sight is 20/20.
On the carrying wepons issue: I've carried all sort's of weapons openly & concealed for over 17 years active duty & civi, from supressed SMG's,SBSG's(AOW) and various pistols. There's nothing cavilear in any of my statements about being armed. If you interpet me to be cavilear because I would just as quickly kill someone who wants to harm me, then your right in that sense, as that's what I trained to do and have had to experience same. I train in MMA and have friends who fight competitively, but I don't have that kind of drive. I take no pleasure in fighting armed or not(accept in the on the mat) , but am not afraid nor unwilling to do so should it be needed. as an example: I'm the kind of guy that you can insult and I'll walk away, you insult my wife and your in for a world of hurt. There are some things I'll let slide and there are others that I wont, that was one of them.
BTW, even if I had been armed at the time, I would have still fled and only engaged him if he boxed me in.
I would never take a handgun to a gun fight, i would take a longarm (M-4 carbine,3-1ball/tracer, laser & Trijicon reflex) .
I didn't follow anyone home. I followed him for 4 turns increasing my distance each turn, the slower he went the farther back I fell. I never confronted the guy, that would have been very dangerous. I follwed giving info to the 911 op, and he got mad because he new I was calling the "guys who show up after it's over".
FWIW: Someone used the word police & protect in the same sentence, and that is a big misunderstanding. Their job is not to protect you, it is to enforce the law. If you are going to rely on the police, you will be very dissapointed. That's why you should own a gun(and be trained how to use it), so you don't have to be a victim, otherwise that's all you can be.
With over 24 years of driving and several spent conducting law enforcement opperations, I can tell you that this was no ordinary jerk just venting anger, this guy was dengerous and I don't tend to shy away from danger. I concur that I should've handled it defferently, in that my son was with me, hind sight is 20/20.
On the carrying wepons issue: I've carried all sort's of weapons openly & concealed for over 17 years active duty & civi, from supressed SMG's,SBSG's(AOW) and various pistols. There's nothing cavilear in any of my statements about being armed. If you interpet me to be cavilear because I would just as quickly kill someone who wants to harm me, then your right in that sense, as that's what I trained to do and have had to experience same. I train in MMA and have friends who fight competitively, but I don't have that kind of drive. I take no pleasure in fighting armed or not(accept in the on the mat) , but am not afraid nor unwilling to do so should it be needed. as an example: I'm the kind of guy that you can insult and I'll walk away, you insult my wife and your in for a world of hurt. There are some things I'll let slide and there are others that I wont, that was one of them.
BTW, even if I had been armed at the time, I would have still fled and only engaged him if he boxed me in.
I would never take a handgun to a gun fight, i would take a longarm (M-4 carbine,3-1ball/tracer, laser & Trijicon reflex) .
I didn't follow anyone home. I followed him for 4 turns increasing my distance each turn, the slower he went the farther back I fell. I never confronted the guy, that would have been very dangerous. I follwed giving info to the 911 op, and he got mad because he new I was calling the "guys who show up after it's over".
FWIW: Someone used the word police & protect in the same sentence, and that is a big misunderstanding. Their job is not to protect you, it is to enforce the law. If you are going to rely on the police, you will be very dissapointed. That's why you should own a gun(and be trained how to use it), so you don't have to be a victim, otherwise that's all you can be.
Last edited by Sgt Blamo; Dec 23, 2006 at 02:07 PM.