Greatest all around evo currently out there?
evolutionary, I think your below criteria for the event is rediculous, because this is how you've had to set up your car you feel this makes it a baseline? (I am not trying to sound like a dick BTW, just no other wording available to my feable mind)
- front and rear bumper support beams
**Not even used in other countries on EVO's.
- AC
**Wasn't suppose to be standard on the RS, who cares about it?
- no roll cage
**Many sanctioning bodies require it, I don't like them in a street car but it is a required safety item for many with legit EVO's.
- dot street tires w/140+ TWR
**That would be fine to even the field.
- full interior
**I agree with that too but in the case of a roll cage sometimes the rear seat needs to be removed, so it should be optional if a cage is in the way.
- no carpet, padding or interior sound deadener removed
**That's rediculous. First off, nobody is going to take the carpet loose and look under it to see what is scraped off the floor or taken off the back of the carpet.
- working radio/speakers (except for RS versions)
**That's rediculous. I agree a car should have a radio but if the RS doesn't have to then nobody should have to...
- run on EPA legal commercially available service station pump gas (no Torco 110 from the pump at the local station)
**We can buy 110 from drive up pumps all over Ohio. Meth injection, E85 will make as much power as C16.......it's a race, not a knitting convention.
I'd be up for an Ultimate EVO contest, organizing it at the shootout, atleast his year would be impossible. If all goes right though next year would be possible. There just isn't a good place to set up an autocross and I don't know how this short notice would work for doing a road course event.
- front and rear bumper support beams
**Not even used in other countries on EVO's.
- AC
**Wasn't suppose to be standard on the RS, who cares about it?
- no roll cage
**Many sanctioning bodies require it, I don't like them in a street car but it is a required safety item for many with legit EVO's.
- dot street tires w/140+ TWR
**That would be fine to even the field.
- full interior
**I agree with that too but in the case of a roll cage sometimes the rear seat needs to be removed, so it should be optional if a cage is in the way.
- no carpet, padding or interior sound deadener removed
**That's rediculous. First off, nobody is going to take the carpet loose and look under it to see what is scraped off the floor or taken off the back of the carpet.
- working radio/speakers (except for RS versions)
**That's rediculous. I agree a car should have a radio but if the RS doesn't have to then nobody should have to...
- run on EPA legal commercially available service station pump gas (no Torco 110 from the pump at the local station)
**We can buy 110 from drive up pumps all over Ohio. Meth injection, E85 will make as much power as C16.......it's a race, not a knitting convention.
I'd be up for an Ultimate EVO contest, organizing it at the shootout, atleast his year would be impossible. If all goes right though next year would be possible. There just isn't a good place to set up an autocross and I don't know how this short notice would work for doing a road course event.
See my comments in RED.
BTW, my red EVO, as it sets now would not be legal for this event under my proposed rules, so I did not come up with them to cater to my personal car. I would have to make several dramatic changes to compete, but I would do it because that is what I feel constitues a "street car". We all know there are 8 second door slammer muscle cars driving around on slicks and race gas with a license plate, but in my opinion those are not true daily driver street cars.
evolutionary, I think your below criteria for the event is rediculous, because this is how you've had to set up your car you feel this makes it a baseline? (I am not trying to sound like a dick BTW, just no other wording available to my feable mind)
- front and rear bumper support beams
**Not even used in other countries on EVO's.
**** Then go race in Japan. We are in the United States and in the US they are required for the car to meet DOT regulations. Based on what I've read, if you poll everyone on EVOM well over 1/2 would not take these off of a daily driver street car.
- AC
**Wasn't suppose to be standard on the RS, who cares about it?
**** But it IS standard.
- no roll cage
**Many sanctioning bodies require it, I don't like them in a street car but it is a required safety item for many with legit EVO's.
**** Didn't know there were sanctioning bodies for driving my car to work.
It is plain NOT SAFE to drive a car with a full cage without a helmet. We could allow roll bars (4-5 points, behind the drivers seat - nothing you could crack your melon on)
- dot street tires w/140+ TWR
**That would be fine to even the field.
**** My thoughts exactly
- full interior
**I agree with that too but in the case of a roll cage sometimes the rear seat needs to be removed, so it should be optional if a cage is in the way.
**** Agreed. The weight penalty of having a roll bar will offset the weight of the rear seats.
- no carpet, padding or interior sound deadener removed
**That's rediculous. First off, nobody is going to take the carpet loose and look under it to see what is scraped off the floor or taken off the back of the carpet.
**** Then it would have to work on the honor system. Some people will cheat, but if they win they will have to live with knowing they are cheating liars.
- working radio/speakers (except for RS versions)
**That's rediculous. I agree a car should have a radio but if the RS doesn't have to then nobody should have to...
**** Respectfully disagree. It is a normal convenience item that is considered part of a normal street car. Removing a functioning radio from a street car goes against the whole street car theme. Of course this is just my opinion.
- run on EPA legal commercially available service station pump gas (no Torco 110 from the pump at the local station)
**We can buy 110 from drive up pumps all over Ohio. Meth injection, E85 will make as much power as C16.......it's a race, not a knitting convention.
**** Dude, I want a C16 powered knitter!! That would be sweet!
Seriously, though, I have never seen 110 octane street legal fuel. I could be wrong, if so let me know what brand is EPA or DOT certified for use in street driven automobiles. Meth injection, E85, 100oct. unleaded, all of those would be allowed in my rules. But, since I am not putting the event on, you can do whatever you feel is right. I am just sharing my opinion.
. . .
- front and rear bumper support beams
**Not even used in other countries on EVO's.
**** Then go race in Japan. We are in the United States and in the US they are required for the car to meet DOT regulations. Based on what I've read, if you poll everyone on EVOM well over 1/2 would not take these off of a daily driver street car.
- AC
**Wasn't suppose to be standard on the RS, who cares about it?
**** But it IS standard.
- no roll cage
**Many sanctioning bodies require it, I don't like them in a street car but it is a required safety item for many with legit EVO's.
**** Didn't know there were sanctioning bodies for driving my car to work.
It is plain NOT SAFE to drive a car with a full cage without a helmet. We could allow roll bars (4-5 points, behind the drivers seat - nothing you could crack your melon on)- dot street tires w/140+ TWR
**That would be fine to even the field.
**** My thoughts exactly
- full interior
**I agree with that too but in the case of a roll cage sometimes the rear seat needs to be removed, so it should be optional if a cage is in the way.
**** Agreed. The weight penalty of having a roll bar will offset the weight of the rear seats.
- no carpet, padding or interior sound deadener removed
**That's rediculous. First off, nobody is going to take the carpet loose and look under it to see what is scraped off the floor or taken off the back of the carpet.
**** Then it would have to work on the honor system. Some people will cheat, but if they win they will have to live with knowing they are cheating liars.
- working radio/speakers (except for RS versions)
**That's rediculous. I agree a car should have a radio but if the RS doesn't have to then nobody should have to...
**** Respectfully disagree. It is a normal convenience item that is considered part of a normal street car. Removing a functioning radio from a street car goes against the whole street car theme. Of course this is just my opinion.
- run on EPA legal commercially available service station pump gas (no Torco 110 from the pump at the local station)
**We can buy 110 from drive up pumps all over Ohio. Meth injection, E85 will make as much power as C16.......it's a race, not a knitting convention.
**** Dude, I want a C16 powered knitter!! That would be sweet!
Seriously, though, I have never seen 110 octane street legal fuel. I could be wrong, if so let me know what brand is EPA or DOT certified for use in street driven automobiles. Meth injection, E85, 100oct. unleaded, all of those would be allowed in my rules. But, since I am not putting the event on, you can do whatever you feel is right. I am just sharing my opinion. . . .
Overall though, it seems like most all-around evo's (as we are calling them) have been built for road-racing. I'd have to agree with that too. I'm debating whether to continue building mine up for that, or to start with an older - ie less expensive - model for that specific purpose (PM me if you got ideas).
There's so many things you have to upgrade to compete on a road course. Suspension, brakes and safety components aren't cheap! No non-sponsored car can be pushing big hp and be reliable on a road-course as mentioned.
Just thought of something. An agreeable set of standards - how about a car that conforms to 'One Lap of America' guidelines??? Yeah!
Last edited by boomn29; Jun 28, 2007 at 11:31 AM.
evolutionary,
O.K. I am not building the event either. Just commenting. The list of parts that are required to be "street legal" as you are wanting would be huge. So if you pick on a bumper beam then this would also be required:
Door beams
Air bags
STOCK ECU and programming
STOCK downpipe with stock catalytic converter
Also, 5 point harnesses, in drag racing, are not legal UNLESS you do have a roll bar installed. So no harnesses in any cars to even the playing field. We'd all have to fall around inside our cars
I didn't say 110 was legal, I just said you can buy it at many gas stations right at the pump. I think limiting a competition based on octane is silly. If you want to do that then all cars should know ahead of time what they are being limited to and then all cars will be required to fill with a minimum of XX gallons all at the same gas station before the event. We had to do that at the Car and Driver Super Four challenge. Everyone had to use the same 93 octane from one station we all went to. I just looked up the rules from the C&D event, you had to show up with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and then fill with their local 93.
Also, not sure about the poll of EVOm members and the crash beam. I know how many FMIC's we sell and install and I can tell you that there are a LOT of EVO's without that stupid bar on the car. I've made my opinion known on the bar quite a few times but will hit the quick points again. Number one, if you are going over a few MPH the car is going to be damaged regardless as it is not that strong. Also, from the cars we've seen wrecked, bought and rebuilt, that bumper beam would be much better off NOT on the car. Each car I have seen that has had a mild impact to either front side of the car that beam has been forced over and caused damage to the opposite side of the car. In other words, it tweaks the frame rail on the opposite side of the hit. The few cars we have fixed that we bought wrecked would have come out a lot better without the bar. The bar is some BS USA regulation, add it to the rest of them we have. It's there for insurance purposes to save an a/c condensor, radiator or maybe a FMIC under extremely low impact. If they had done any proper studies on it they would have found hitting it at any angle caused more damage than not having it......just my opinion.
Anyway, an event put together like this would be cool. Impossible to make everyone happy. I would think doing the event based on the C&D Super Four Challenge would be a great way to do it.
O.K. I am not building the event either. Just commenting. The list of parts that are required to be "street legal" as you are wanting would be huge. So if you pick on a bumper beam then this would also be required:
Door beams
Air bags
STOCK ECU and programming
STOCK downpipe with stock catalytic converter
Also, 5 point harnesses, in drag racing, are not legal UNLESS you do have a roll bar installed. So no harnesses in any cars to even the playing field. We'd all have to fall around inside our cars
I didn't say 110 was legal, I just said you can buy it at many gas stations right at the pump. I think limiting a competition based on octane is silly. If you want to do that then all cars should know ahead of time what they are being limited to and then all cars will be required to fill with a minimum of XX gallons all at the same gas station before the event. We had to do that at the Car and Driver Super Four challenge. Everyone had to use the same 93 octane from one station we all went to. I just looked up the rules from the C&D event, you had to show up with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and then fill with their local 93.
Also, not sure about the poll of EVOm members and the crash beam. I know how many FMIC's we sell and install and I can tell you that there are a LOT of EVO's without that stupid bar on the car. I've made my opinion known on the bar quite a few times but will hit the quick points again. Number one, if you are going over a few MPH the car is going to be damaged regardless as it is not that strong. Also, from the cars we've seen wrecked, bought and rebuilt, that bumper beam would be much better off NOT on the car. Each car I have seen that has had a mild impact to either front side of the car that beam has been forced over and caused damage to the opposite side of the car. In other words, it tweaks the frame rail on the opposite side of the hit. The few cars we have fixed that we bought wrecked would have come out a lot better without the bar. The bar is some BS USA regulation, add it to the rest of them we have. It's there for insurance purposes to save an a/c condensor, radiator or maybe a FMIC under extremely low impact. If they had done any proper studies on it they would have found hitting it at any angle caused more damage than not having it......just my opinion.
Anyway, an event put together like this would be cool. Impossible to make everyone happy. I would think doing the event based on the C&D Super Four Challenge would be a great way to do it.
David, I think it might be something for you to consider for next year's shootout. At least you'd have a year to work out details. It might not run smoothly if you try to cram it in this year's event.
Dave....
I would up for a DSM shoot out with an Autocross also........hell make it a rally cross in the grass/dirt.......that would really separate the garage queens from the true street cars
In Michigan "if it don't have trees it can be a road"
If you want a real contest have the owner drive their own cars.........Some can drag, some can turn but not everyone can do both. Horsepower and parts only make up for so much.
Matt J.
I would up for a DSM shoot out with an Autocross also........hell make it a rally cross in the grass/dirt.......that would really separate the garage queens from the true street cars
In Michigan "if it don't have trees it can be a road"
If you want a real contest have the owner drive their own cars.........Some can drag, some can turn but not everyone can do both. Horsepower and parts only make up for so much.
Matt J.
DB,
I understand your POV. I'm sure if you ask 10 folks on here to define a street car you will get 10 different answers. I of course have my own opinion, but because I don't have the means, time, or interest in putting on my own event, I follow the rules of whatever I event I go to. Whether it's Winged Warrior, SCCA, NASA, or the DSM/EVO shootout.
I DO like Matt's idea of a combination Drag Race/Rally Cross event!! I would be down for that!!
I understand your POV. I'm sure if you ask 10 folks on here to define a street car you will get 10 different answers. I of course have my own opinion, but because I don't have the means, time, or interest in putting on my own event, I follow the rules of whatever I event I go to. Whether it's Winged Warrior, SCCA, NASA, or the DSM/EVO shootout.
I DO like Matt's idea of a combination Drag Race/Rally Cross event!! I would be down for that!!
I don't agree with combining the rallycross, because I've doing rallycross, and I know firsthand how being setup for circuit/auto-x in no way translates to rally-x. It requires a completely different suspension and tire setup, so that would really suck. Very few people have 16" rims with knobby dirt tires and small brake packages with specialized suspensions for dirt racing. I think we can stick with autox and/or road racing and have a great event.
I cannot stress this enough. Build and drive your own car, then pwn with it.
If you want a real contest have the owner drive their own cars.........Some can drag, some can turn but not everyone can do both. Horsepower and parts only make up for so much.
Running my "show quality" car through the dirt has absolutely ZERO interest to me. As a matter of fact, if you took up a collection you couldn't get enough money for me to even consider it.
I would be up for putting together an event if you all wanted one. The cost of putting this on would be very high. Renting the drag strip is very costly on the weekend, renting a road course with insurance for timing is also very expensive.
Maybe I should start another thread just for this purpose and see what we get for interest?
I know I can put it together.
Here are somethings I think we should do though. Let me know what you guys think.
First off, if we start another thread, we should make a poll for each and every portion of the racing.......every detail. Whatever comes out on top of the poll after XX amount of time will be how that detail is run at the race, majority wins. The key though will be the only people that can vote are those who are going to participate, in order to make sure of that we should have a sign up with a required deposit for the event. Even if it's $50, nobody will pay $50 to just vote on a topic, see what I mean? Then it's the racers voting and not the general EVOm society. What do you think?
I would be up for putting together an event if you all wanted one. The cost of putting this on would be very high. Renting the drag strip is very costly on the weekend, renting a road course with insurance for timing is also very expensive.
Maybe I should start another thread just for this purpose and see what we get for interest?
I know I can put it together.
Here are somethings I think we should do though. Let me know what you guys think.
First off, if we start another thread, we should make a poll for each and every portion of the racing.......every detail. Whatever comes out on top of the poll after XX amount of time will be how that detail is run at the race, majority wins. The key though will be the only people that can vote are those who are going to participate, in order to make sure of that we should have a sign up with a required deposit for the event. Even if it's $50, nobody will pay $50 to just vote on a topic, see what I mean? Then it's the racers voting and not the general EVOm society. What do you think?
How 'bout something at WWIV next year? I got ORP, and could get Putnam Park the same weekend if you guys want to settle the score! Let me know. ORP has room for autox/drag/roadcourse, ALL in one place!! You know where to find me!
Last edited by smokedmustang; Jun 28, 2007 at 05:58 PM.
I think we were just kind of kidding about the Rally Cross.
Adding a road course may severely limit participation. I don't think you want people who have never been on one (me included) to go ***** out their 1st time and crash. Smoked Mustang is right, there is alread a good event, WW, for this.
I would really like to get the skidpad, slalom and braking tests worked back into the event, though!
EVOlutionary
Adding a road course may severely limit participation. I don't think you want people who have never been on one (me included) to go ***** out their 1st time and crash. Smoked Mustang is right, there is alread a good event, WW, for this.
I would really like to get the skidpad, slalom and braking tests worked back into the event, though!
EVOlutionary
