Greatest all around evo currently out there?
I am sure this will start some "discussion" again, which I like
Some of you keep saying, "drive your own car, driver must drive his own car etc." As most of you know, I feel I suck at driving so I don't bother. I can build a winning car for whatever the racing is (atleast I feel I can) but the car need someone worthy of driving it to prove it. I see no reason to put my retarded *** in the drivers seat and make a great car look like it's mediocre.
With that said, I have been getting back behind the wheel and doing some autocrossing and road racing. Maybe it's because I don't have as much to gauge the car by but I feel I can do either of those better than I can drag race.
I put Trent in my RS and it runs 9.77, I get in it and I can't even run 10's.
On an autocross lately I had the '06 Eclipse, asked the Pro driver that was running the event to drive the car. He managed a 54.03 in the car, he then told me the car was at it's mechanical limits and it would not go faster than that in it's current state. By the end of the day I ran a 54.3- in the car. So I was within .3 of a Pro who does nothing but autocrosses every single weekend. I can live with that.
On the road course, first time ever, had one of the instructors drive the Eclipse, he ran a 56.--, by the end of the weekend I managed a 59.--. Again, I can live with that. Granted both the .3 and the 3 seconds are HUGE differences.
I think autocrossing is much easier than road racing, my personal opinion. The concentration level is much less on an autocross course, so for me it makes it much easier.
I'd like to see a road course event over an autocross event as the road course I think will prove more. Hard to cook your brakes on a minute autocross course, hard to fry your engine from a poor tune on an autocross course. Put a car out on the road course and you will find it's short comings pretty quickly.........and probably the drivers too.
If setting up this event is going to require the owner to drive his own car and then we have people saying, "Well I suck at such and such portion or it's too dangerous for new guys." How exactly is that showing who has the ultimate EVO? Seems to me some of you want to show who has the ultimate driver who owns an EVO too.
Are we looking for the best: driver? EVO? or combination of driver/evo?
I say we look for the best EVO as we have been talking about. If you need a driver to show how good it is, get one.
If that isn't the decision that is made then I say the event is VERY diverse so that someone who accels in just one area will be penalized for sucking somewhere else. Seem fair enough?
Some of you keep saying, "drive your own car, driver must drive his own car etc." As most of you know, I feel I suck at driving so I don't bother. I can build a winning car for whatever the racing is (atleast I feel I can) but the car need someone worthy of driving it to prove it. I see no reason to put my retarded *** in the drivers seat and make a great car look like it's mediocre.
With that said, I have been getting back behind the wheel and doing some autocrossing and road racing. Maybe it's because I don't have as much to gauge the car by but I feel I can do either of those better than I can drag race.
I put Trent in my RS and it runs 9.77, I get in it and I can't even run 10's.
On an autocross lately I had the '06 Eclipse, asked the Pro driver that was running the event to drive the car. He managed a 54.03 in the car, he then told me the car was at it's mechanical limits and it would not go faster than that in it's current state. By the end of the day I ran a 54.3- in the car. So I was within .3 of a Pro who does nothing but autocrosses every single weekend. I can live with that.
On the road course, first time ever, had one of the instructors drive the Eclipse, he ran a 56.--, by the end of the weekend I managed a 59.--. Again, I can live with that. Granted both the .3 and the 3 seconds are HUGE differences.
I think autocrossing is much easier than road racing, my personal opinion. The concentration level is much less on an autocross course, so for me it makes it much easier.
I'd like to see a road course event over an autocross event as the road course I think will prove more. Hard to cook your brakes on a minute autocross course, hard to fry your engine from a poor tune on an autocross course. Put a car out on the road course and you will find it's short comings pretty quickly.........and probably the drivers too.
If setting up this event is going to require the owner to drive his own car and then we have people saying, "Well I suck at such and such portion or it's too dangerous for new guys." How exactly is that showing who has the ultimate EVO? Seems to me some of you want to show who has the ultimate driver who owns an EVO too.
Are we looking for the best: driver? EVO? or combination of driver/evo?
I say we look for the best EVO as we have been talking about. If you need a driver to show how good it is, get one.
If that isn't the decision that is made then I say the event is VERY diverse so that someone who accels in just one area will be penalized for sucking somewhere else. Seem fair enough?
I prefer best driver/evo, because that gives people a better chance to show the full package. Some people have a lot of money and resources, but can't drive. Others can drive but haven't put together a solid Evo. I like the idea of people who both have put together a solid, daily driven Evo and know how to take that same Evo and drive it to the limits. Of course, I like this idea, because it suits me best and is my only chance to compete with mid-300whp.
I prefer best driver/evo, because that gives people a better chance to show the full package. Some people have a lot of money and resources, but can't drive. Others can drive but haven't put together a solid Evo. I like the idea of people who both have put together a solid, daily driven Evo and know how to take that same Evo and drive it to the limits. Of course, I like this idea, because it suits me best and is my only chance to compete with mid-300whp.
There's a lot of shop Evo's out there that run 9's or 10's - but they pull in professional drivers to do so.
Having an owner/driver really equalizes the field for us that run non-sponsored and such. Hope that makes sense.
Also, with rallx; I'd never subject my car to that.
I think we were just kind of kidding about the Rally Cross.
Adding a road course may severely limit participation. I don't think you want people who have never been on one (me included) to go ***** out their 1st time and crash. Smoked Mustang is right, there is alread a good event, WW, for this.
I would really like to get the skidpad, slalom and braking tests worked back into the event, though!
EVOlutionary
Adding a road course may severely limit participation. I don't think you want people who have never been on one (me included) to go ***** out their 1st time and crash. Smoked Mustang is right, there is alread a good event, WW, for this.
I would really like to get the skidpad, slalom and braking tests worked back into the event, though!
EVOlutionary
I agree with you. We will work the slalom back in for the next event. (would have been cool to do it this year, had a nice slalom). I "offered" the tracks as tongue-in-cheek.
Not sure what shops you are referring to about pulling in professional drivers but I want to clear the air that we are no in that category. Trent Stanley is our welder here at the shop. He is a very good drag racer and I have him or another friend of mine, Kevin Lawson, drag race my EVO as they both drive better than me. They are friends of mine, one a welder and another works at Smucker's. Not professional drivers. Our black drag car we have here, is mine, and I let Daniel, my brother drive that one. As for the Time Attack car, you know we have Robert Fuller drive that, he was a customer with an interest in road racing and I heard he could drive well, I don't know if he is considered a professional driver but I would say no. At the Winged Warrior event that we just won, I had Trent drive my EVO, I thought the place it would accel in the most was the 1/4 mile and knew Trent could pull that off. Little did I know it was as capable as it was as an autocross car too as Trent has less than 6 autocrosses in his lifetime and he placed 4th.
Professional drivers, I would say should not be allowed. Someone who is not considered a Pro is different. What seperates the two? I'd say some sort of National win at a Pro level would be enough to seperate them. Funny thing is at one time I won three National Championships in the same year drag racing.......to bad the EVO is offered in an automatic trans
Professional drivers, I would say should not be allowed. Someone who is not considered a Pro is different. What seperates the two? I'd say some sort of National win at a Pro level would be enough to seperate them. Funny thing is at one time I won three National Championships in the same year drag racing.......to bad the EVO is offered in an automatic trans
What about having a seperate track day at Mid-Ohio, Beaver Run etc for the road racing. Call it the Evo time attack or some sorts, open to Evo/DSM's only. You get points for that and then at the annual DSM Shootout you could get points for the drag racing portion.
SQ
SQ
Professional drivers, I would say should not be allowed. Someone who is not considered a Pro is different. What seperates the two? I'd say some sort of National win at a Pro level would be enough to seperate them. Funny thing is at one time I won three National Championships in the same year drag racing.......to bad the EVO is offered in an automatic trans[/QUOTE]
Thats a good point Dave. The truth is, I've seen some practiced (i.e., NON professional drivers) be very run of the mill. I've also seen some very, very skilled drivers compete very well and they are amateurs at best.
But, there is one distinct difference I've seen that gives pro drivers the edge, and the simple fact is there is consistency that exists that amateurs dont posses on many occasions. There is one guy I know that has telepathy when it comes to driving road courses and motorcycles....he scares the hell out of me in a car because he practically dive bombs corners.
But the win on a pro level circuit sounds like a differentiation or licensing in a sanctioning body considered a pro driver.
[/QUOTE]Thats a good point Dave. The truth is, I've seen some practiced (i.e., NON professional drivers) be very run of the mill. I've also seen some very, very skilled drivers compete very well and they are amateurs at best.
But, there is one distinct difference I've seen that gives pro drivers the edge, and the simple fact is there is consistency that exists that amateurs dont posses on many occasions. There is one guy I know that has telepathy when it comes to driving road courses and motorcycles....he scares the hell out of me in a car because he practically dive bombs corners.
But the win on a pro level circuit sounds like a differentiation or licensing in a sanctioning body considered a pro driver.
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Midland Mich
evolutionary,
O.K. I am not building the event either. Just commenting. The list of parts that are required to be "street legal" as you are wanting would be huge. So if you pick on a bumper beam then this would also be required:
Door beams
Air bags
STOCK ECU and programming
STOCK downpipe with stock catalytic converter
Also, 5 point harnesses, in drag racing, are not legal UNLESS you do have a roll bar installed. So no harnesses in any cars to even the playing field. We'd all have to fall around inside our cars
I didn't say 110 was legal, I just said you can buy it at many gas stations right at the pump. I think limiting a competition based on octane is silly. If you want to do that then all cars should know ahead of time what they are being limited to and then all cars will be required to fill with a minimum of XX gallons all at the same gas station before the event. We had to do that at the Car and Driver Super Four challenge. Everyone had to use the same 93 octane from one station we all went to. I just looked up the rules from the C&D event, you had to show up with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and then fill with their local 93.
Also, not sure about the poll of EVOm members and the crash beam. I know how many FMIC's we sell and install and I can tell you that there are a LOT of EVO's without that stupid bar on the car. I've made my opinion known on the bar quite a few times but will hit the quick points again. Number one, if you are going over a few MPH the car is going to be damaged regardless as it is not that strong. Also, from the cars we've seen wrecked, bought and rebuilt, that bumper beam would be much better off NOT on the car. Each car I have seen that has had a mild impact to either front side of the car that beam has been forced over and caused damage to the opposite side of the car. In other words, it tweaks the frame rail on the opposite side of the hit. The few cars we have fixed that we bought wrecked would have come out a lot better without the bar. The bar is some BS USA regulation, add it to the rest of them we have. It's there for insurance purposes to save an a/c condensor, (condenser) radiator or maybe a FMIC under extremely low impact. If they had done any proper studies on it they would have found hitting it at any angle caused more damage than not having it......just my opinion.
Anyway, an event put together like this would be cool. Impossible to make everyone happy. I would think doing the event based on the C&D Super Four Challenge would be a great way to do it.
O.K. I am not building the event either. Just commenting. The list of parts that are required to be "street legal" as you are wanting would be huge. So if you pick on a bumper beam then this would also be required:
Door beams
Air bags
STOCK ECU and programming
STOCK downpipe with stock catalytic converter
Also, 5 point harnesses, in drag racing, are not legal UNLESS you do have a roll bar installed. So no harnesses in any cars to even the playing field. We'd all have to fall around inside our cars
I didn't say 110 was legal, I just said you can buy it at many gas stations right at the pump. I think limiting a competition based on octane is silly. If you want to do that then all cars should know ahead of time what they are being limited to and then all cars will be required to fill with a minimum of XX gallons all at the same gas station before the event. We had to do that at the Car and Driver Super Four challenge. Everyone had to use the same 93 octane from one station we all went to. I just looked up the rules from the C&D event, you had to show up with less than a 1/4 tank of fuel and then fill with their local 93.
Also, not sure about the poll of EVOm members and the crash beam. I know how many FMIC's we sell and install and I can tell you that there are a LOT of EVO's without that stupid bar on the car. I've made my opinion known on the bar quite a few times but will hit the quick points again. Number one, if you are going over a few MPH the car is going to be damaged regardless as it is not that strong. Also, from the cars we've seen wrecked, bought and rebuilt, that bumper beam would be much better off NOT on the car. Each car I have seen that has had a mild impact to either front side of the car that beam has been forced over and caused damage to the opposite side of the car. In other words, it tweaks the frame rail on the opposite side of the hit. The few cars we have fixed that we bought wrecked would have come out a lot better without the bar. The bar is some BS USA regulation, add it to the rest of them we have. It's there for insurance purposes to save an a/c condensor, (condenser) radiator or maybe a FMIC under extremely low impact. If they had done any proper studies on it they would have found hitting it at any angle caused more damage than not having it......just my opinion.
Anyway, an event put together like this would be cool. Impossible to make everyone happy. I would think doing the event based on the C&D Super Four Challenge would be a great way to do it.
The beam is not there to save a A/C condenser it is there to transfer the energy of the accident to help save the passengers. The insurance company cares much more about medical bills then car repairs.
i have to say dans car at pruven...made 668 at the wheels on a custom 35r has the sickest paint job on and evo still fully streetable... jsut makes awsome power and looks awsome can t see a better one around and it went mid 10's on low boost with oput drags...
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: Midland Mich