baddogevo

I'm surprised that your clutch has lasted so long but I will agree that whatever you are doing it is working for you.

Here's hoping that mine lasts a little longer because I don't engine brake. But to each their own, I guess.

UT_Evo

iTrader: (5)

Dude, if you want to ask that, post a new thread. Or search.

abazaba410

iTrader: (27)

my bad i clicked on new thread and posted it on here on accident.

JJsEvo8

iTrader: (6)

Engine braking??? We are not driving Semi trucks!

I wouldnt recommend engine braking unless you really have it down to a science. Otherwise, its too rough on your drivetrain.

Talon

iTrader: (3)

Rarely. I use the brakes to brake. Those engineers at brembo know their ****.

ODUB

iTrader: (8)

if you do it right, the whole point is to downshift while braking WITHOUT abusing your clutch. that's why you rev match.

i heel toe every time i downshift. it's become a reflex. everytime i slow down i heel toe into the proper gear so i'm never in a gear that's too high. been doing that for 51k miles and no problems yet.

mis4tun81

To start, I always rev match, and will usually row down through the gears and heel toe, if I am slowing down gently, but I won’t use that opportunity to engine brake.

If I stop fast, I will always mash the clutch, and use the brake.

I always felt engine braking was a personal preference, and something everyone will agree to disagree on. But I could never really understand, or experience how engine braking can help stop you faster.

If you are going 100 mph, and need to stop as fast as possible, and you jam on the brakes 100 percent, traction control kicks in indicating you have reached 100 percent of your traction limit. Engine braking isn’t going to slow you down any faster.

Say you are good enough to modulate braking at the 100% traction limit (threshold braking) without ABS kicking in. How is it better or going to slow you down faster by having your engine doing 10 percent of the work, and you brakes doing 10 percent less work. (or whatever the ratio)

Why not just push the brake pedal just a little bit harder?

I have never driven a vehicle whose brakes couldn’t overpower the tires traction and skid, but I guess in that case engine braking can help slow you faster.
And I also agree with Lift throttle oversteer (AWD or RWD) but that isn’t engine braking to stop the car, only to make an attitude adjustment in an AWD or RWD car.

The only time I will engine brake is if I pass a cop, and i want to slow down without flashing brake lights.

In my opinion guilt needs no admission.

cfdfireman1

iTrader: (11)

Any time your not on the gas, the cars in gear, and the clutch is out you're engine braking. If the cars not in gear or you're holding in the clutch you're not in control of your car. The extent of braking depends on the gear and the RPM.

72Tornado

iTrader: (5)

You're thinking about it in the wrong way. Engine braking doesn't depend on the friction between the tires and the road. You could be on a perfectly frictionless surface and engine braking would still have an effect (maybe something to keep in mind if you ever find yourself on a massive patch of pure ice ). Engine braking uses the friction of the powertrain to slow the car down. Its effect is from reducing the force providing motion, that being engine torque. Brakes slow the car down from the result of that motion.

In any case, engine braking when you're already braking at maximum potential won't have any real effect anyway.

DanJ

iTrader: (2)

replacing brake pads is cheaper than replacing clutch/synchros. unless your a racecar drive just use the brake pedal.

Mr. Evo IX

iTrader: (5)

When you drive a manual like has been mentioned earlier, the car should always be in a drive gear unless it's stopped. The best way to lean how to drive a manual properly is in a non-syncronized tranny (doesnt have to be a race car, could be a farm truck). You will learn how to rev match gears properly or you wont go in any gears. These new coast in neutral drivers.. yeesh. Even my mother and grandmother know how to drive a manual.. and yes you should downshift as your stopping - you never know when you will need to accelerate to avoid an accident especially while braking. Rev matching is better on your clutch and syncros. Another thing.. you should always leave a manual transmission car in gear when it's parked. I understand the clutch wear argument but I dont think that downshifting has any significant wear on the clutch. I bet 30,000miles of downshifting doesnt even equal 1 launch.

As far as reliable
I need to update my sig.. still on the stock clutch 24K, 100's of 3rd gear pulls while tuning, lots of 1/4 mile runs at the track, 1 HPDE track day.




4 advans
1 tranny fluid change (fluid was clean looking)
1 rear diff fluid change
1 ACD fluid change
1 set of brake pads
8 oil changes and filters

cfdfireman1

iTrader: (11)

how does this work when you get off the highway or go from 1 speed zone to another or heavy traffic that changes speed or you see a stoplight ahead and you don't have to stop but you do slow down.

do you drive an auto or manual?

mis4tun81

I had to think about that for a minute,

and living in Western New York I drive on alot of ice (EVO makes it a great deal of fun )

I'm not convinced.

I don't think there is any way possible you could stop if not for the traction between the wheels and the road.

Engine braking slows the car down because of the mechanical & frictional losses (minimal) in the engine, as well as the significant effect of the compression of the intake by the piston in the cylinder without an ignition to provide power. Correct?

This resistance to motion is transferred to the wheels because the wheels are locked by the clutch to the motion of the engine.

The momentum of the car moving forward forces the wheels and the engine to spin because of the friction between the tires and the road even though the engine does not want to spin. This resistance of the engine to spin slows the car down, and it’s the ultimate grip between the tires and road that determines the amount of braking you can do in a straight line wether with the engine or wheel brakes, the end effect is the same the wheels want to spin slower than the road wants them to. Certainly engine braking will slow the car down, but it will take less wheel brake to lock the wheels up. So why bother engime braking.

And I agree that once you hit that traction limit, I will add as long as your brakes can lock the wheels up, then engine braking wont help.

I have a motorcycle that has a back torque limiter on its clutch, that will open the clutch and allow it to spin during agressive engine braking because the engine braking effect is enough to lock up the rear wheel!!! I dont see that as any different than applying the rear brake, so I dont EB on the bike either. But I will trail the rear brake to settle the front as I enter a fast turn.

And again, , lift throttle oversteer is a useful engine braking skill on the track (RWD AWD)

And I might accept the argument that you can stop better in a FWD car because as you apply the brakes(engine or wheel), weight shifts forward, and increased the traction on the front wheels and reduces the traction on the back so there is less of a chance locking up the front wheels meaning you can apply the front brakes harder than the back.

But in AWD or RWD, I ‘m still not convinced.

72Tornado

iTrader: (5)

Hmm...as I think about it, you might be right, actually. Ultimately you can only apply so much stopping power before the brakes lock up, and that is in fact due to not enough available friction between the tire and the road. I agree.

But in any case, this thread isn't about engine braking to slow down the car faster, it's about just the technique itself, so it's not necessarily relevant either way

The ice example isn't necessarily relevant either. There, the wheels have already broken traction and their motion is unaffected by the surface. Engine braking would still slow the rotation of the wheels but it's a separate case.

DSMEVOLUTION

iTrader: (7)

You do know the Evo is front biased right???

I'm really suprised how many people do not know how to properly drive a manual because they think it's bad for the drivetrain. Get it through your head it's not bad! It's the proper way to drive a manual. I did it on my 95 talon tsi and the clutch lasted for 80,000 miles. I've also been doing from day one on my evo. It will have no ill effects on the clutch as long as you know how to rev match properly. Funny thing is that half these people who say I don't engine brake still launch there car! That 100x more deadly to the engine, tranny, and clutch! My rant is over....