Motor Trend Sept 03 Mail Section EVO
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From: Columbia SC
They obviously haven't seen this video :
http://www.clant.com/htm/djm.mpg
that is a supercharged NSX by the way
http://www.clant.com/htm/djm.mpg
that is a supercharged NSX by the way
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 250
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From: Chicago
Maybe i was a little wrong to consider the NSX an exotic.. w.e. that wasn't the point i was trying to make though... You have to really understand the NSX to understand where it gets it price tag from..and you have to actually see it race.. drive it..like it was ment to be driven.. and you'll be amazed.. 90k is a hefty amount.. but as i stated.. the car wasn't ment to sale.. it's purely for Honda's image.. It's their race car and yadda yadda.. but the car wasn't ment to be given to every buyer who seeks interest in it...
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From: Los Gatos CA
NSX Info
Hi,
A friend linked me to this thread and I thought I’d add a bit of info. I’m rewriting all of this after losing the original 2 pages I wrote so believe me, I’m only out to share some info with some fellow car enthusiasts – not to bash the Evo. FYI – I am the owner of an NSX as well as a newly (and instantly I might add) converted Evo fan as well. Please please please understand that I have NO intention to bash the Evo or rant on about how great the NSX compared to the Evo – none of that – I’m trying to make myself clear about my intentions because I’ve seen many ignorant groups that just bash everything that isn’t their car… thankfully you guys are more mature
Oh and btw, this is a really long post – some of you may get bored I’m sure.
So here it goes – I’ll try my best to address everything mentioned…:
-Exotic? This has been discussed several times on the NSX board and nobody could come up with a decision on what classified a car as an exotic – it comes down to personal meaning. Here’s some quotes – you can decide for yourself (full quotes below)
- “I know Gordon Murray who designed the McLaren F1 and he drove an NSX from the day it was launched as his everyday car and used it as the benchmark for the F1 roadcar - I don't think you can get any higher praise than that.”
- the NSX was co developed with racer Ayrton Senna
-hand built, all aluminum, rare, etc
-Production numbers – “They sell about 5-10 NSX every year.. the most they ever sold was last year i belvie where they sold around 18!!!” - If I remember correctly around 130 were sold in the states in 2002, Top Gear also said around 8-13 (numbers are slipping my mind) were sold in the UK
-Price- Yes the 03 NSX MSRP is appx 90k and as for the lack of 40k in upgrades over the years…. When the NSX was introduced it’s MSRP was appx 60k – this equates to about 90k with inflation, keep in mind it’s had quite a lot life span. In 2002 dealers were selling brand new 02s for as low as 75k (standard practice) – this puts it around the 911 price range. For some reason I don’t hear anyone complain about the 911 being a rip off yet it performs about the same, is much more common, and less reliable – then again as some point out, “it’s just a Honda”. As for comparing the NSX dollar for dollar to the Evo, for about 35k you can purchase a used 91 NSX. This includes an all aluminum body, hand built, extremely rare, reliable, mid engined, 270hp engine (was upped to 290 in 97). For 35k the NSX is quite competitive spec wise compared to cars like the Evo, Sti, S2000, Boxster (used), Vette, etc – that’s my take on it anyways.
-NSX-R – Hammerli is correct, the NSX-R, NSX Type S, NSX Type S Zero are not available in the states – only the NSX, NSX-T (the heavier targa variant), and the NSX Zanardi Edition (essentially an NSX coupe – only comes in red, slightly stiff suspension, only 50 made). Just a little model background info; the coupe came standard from 91-94, not available in 95, and was optional 96-2001 and is no longer available for 2002+. The Zanardi would be the fastest US model. I believe it was Motor Trend who tested the NSX-T at 0-60 4.5 (I’d say the norm is more like 4.7-8).
Some Sources:
NSX-R 7:50 Nurburgring
According BestCar's Magazine's July 10th issue, the new NSX-R video lapped the 20.832km. Nurburgring's Northern Loop in 7 min. 50 sec.!! As many of you have already known, the old R did 8 min. 3.86 sec. on the same course, but the track had been repaved and changed somewhat since the last "R" test back in 1993 so the significant time variation is quite possible
An SportAuto (German magazine) also tested several cars recently:
Lamborghini Murcielago 7:52
Porsche GT2 7:46
Pagani Zonda C-12S 7:44
Track record is 6:25.91 by a Porsche 962 (IMSA Group C racecar)
Best Motoring Video Results:
1)Ferrari F50
Best Time = 1'38"573
Total Time = 5'02"029
2)Porsche 911 GT2
Best Time = 1'38"938
Total Time = 5'03"880
3)Lamborghini Murcielago
Best Time = 1'39"834
Total Time = 5'08"307
4)Honda NSX-R
Best Time = 1'40"265
Total Time = 5'08"577
5)Gemballa Biturbo GT500
Best Time = 1'40"571
Total Time = 5'10"087
6)Porsche 911 Carrera 4S
Best Time = 1'44"141
Total Time = 5'23"166
One of my favourite quotes:
and this comment:” An interesting debate about the NSX and one that has raged since its launch in 1990, when I worked for Honda in the UK in the Press and PR department. It is a car that broke new ground for a supercar and to really understand what a masterpiece of engineering it is you have to look past the facts and figures(which are ballpark average Supercar) and look at the intelligence which went into creating it. Aluminum construction, titanium conrods, 8,000rpm and climate control that works. Look at the brand new Ferrari 360 Modena and it is a copy of all these things - Ferrari had a big wake-up call in 1990 and it has taken 9 years to respond, which is good because it is a great marque that was falling behind. I work for another car company now but I am lucky enough that I do still have my dream car in the garage - an original 1991 NSX. Now with 38,000 miles on the clock it drives as good as the day it was made - only worn leather seats give the age away. Living near London, it never fails to provide an unforgettable drive on the english country lanes and is so much more exclusive than the Ferraris and Porsches that are common in London. On a trip to the Monaco Grand Prix, down through the autobahns of Germany, cruising at 150 mph was a doddle and believe me, you do get respect from the Porsche, BMW drivers who do know what an NSX is. If you accept it for the automotive technical tour de force that it is then the NSX is still a masterpiece and one final point, I know Gordon Murray who designed the McLaren F1 and he drove an NSX from the day it was launched as his everyday car and used it as the benchmark for the F1 roadcar - I don't think you can get any higher praise than that.
-- Graeme Holt, May 24, 1999"
Okay well, I'm really tired so I'm going to end it... If you've gotten this far, congrats, thanks for keeping an open mind guys.
A friend linked me to this thread and I thought I’d add a bit of info. I’m rewriting all of this after losing the original 2 pages I wrote so believe me, I’m only out to share some info with some fellow car enthusiasts – not to bash the Evo. FYI – I am the owner of an NSX as well as a newly (and instantly I might add) converted Evo fan as well. Please please please understand that I have NO intention to bash the Evo or rant on about how great the NSX compared to the Evo – none of that – I’m trying to make myself clear about my intentions because I’ve seen many ignorant groups that just bash everything that isn’t their car… thankfully you guys are more mature
Oh and btw, this is a really long post – some of you may get bored I’m sure.So here it goes – I’ll try my best to address everything mentioned…:
-Exotic? This has been discussed several times on the NSX board and nobody could come up with a decision on what classified a car as an exotic – it comes down to personal meaning. Here’s some quotes – you can decide for yourself (full quotes below)
- “I know Gordon Murray who designed the McLaren F1 and he drove an NSX from the day it was launched as his everyday car and used it as the benchmark for the F1 roadcar - I don't think you can get any higher praise than that.”
- the NSX was co developed with racer Ayrton Senna
-hand built, all aluminum, rare, etc
-Production numbers – “They sell about 5-10 NSX every year.. the most they ever sold was last year i belvie where they sold around 18!!!” - If I remember correctly around 130 were sold in the states in 2002, Top Gear also said around 8-13 (numbers are slipping my mind) were sold in the UK
-Price- Yes the 03 NSX MSRP is appx 90k and as for the lack of 40k in upgrades over the years…. When the NSX was introduced it’s MSRP was appx 60k – this equates to about 90k with inflation, keep in mind it’s had quite a lot life span. In 2002 dealers were selling brand new 02s for as low as 75k (standard practice) – this puts it around the 911 price range. For some reason I don’t hear anyone complain about the 911 being a rip off yet it performs about the same, is much more common, and less reliable – then again as some point out, “it’s just a Honda”. As for comparing the NSX dollar for dollar to the Evo, for about 35k you can purchase a used 91 NSX. This includes an all aluminum body, hand built, extremely rare, reliable, mid engined, 270hp engine (was upped to 290 in 97). For 35k the NSX is quite competitive spec wise compared to cars like the Evo, Sti, S2000, Boxster (used), Vette, etc – that’s my take on it anyways.
-NSX-R – Hammerli is correct, the NSX-R, NSX Type S, NSX Type S Zero are not available in the states – only the NSX, NSX-T (the heavier targa variant), and the NSX Zanardi Edition (essentially an NSX coupe – only comes in red, slightly stiff suspension, only 50 made). Just a little model background info; the coupe came standard from 91-94, not available in 95, and was optional 96-2001 and is no longer available for 2002+. The Zanardi would be the fastest US model. I believe it was Motor Trend who tested the NSX-T at 0-60 4.5 (I’d say the norm is more like 4.7-8).
Some Sources:
NSX-R 7:50 Nurburgring
According BestCar's Magazine's July 10th issue, the new NSX-R video lapped the 20.832km. Nurburgring's Northern Loop in 7 min. 50 sec.!! As many of you have already known, the old R did 8 min. 3.86 sec. on the same course, but the track had been repaved and changed somewhat since the last "R" test back in 1993 so the significant time variation is quite possible
An SportAuto (German magazine) also tested several cars recently:
Lamborghini Murcielago 7:52
Porsche GT2 7:46
Pagani Zonda C-12S 7:44
Track record is 6:25.91 by a Porsche 962 (IMSA Group C racecar)
Best Motoring Video Results:
1)Ferrari F50
Best Time = 1'38"573
Total Time = 5'02"029
2)Porsche 911 GT2
Best Time = 1'38"938
Total Time = 5'03"880
3)Lamborghini Murcielago
Best Time = 1'39"834
Total Time = 5'08"307
4)Honda NSX-R
Best Time = 1'40"265
Total Time = 5'08"577
5)Gemballa Biturbo GT500
Best Time = 1'40"571
Total Time = 5'10"087
6)Porsche 911 Carrera 4S
Best Time = 1'44"141
Total Time = 5'23"166
One of my favourite quotes:
and this comment:” An interesting debate about the NSX and one that has raged since its launch in 1990, when I worked for Honda in the UK in the Press and PR department. It is a car that broke new ground for a supercar and to really understand what a masterpiece of engineering it is you have to look past the facts and figures(which are ballpark average Supercar) and look at the intelligence which went into creating it. Aluminum construction, titanium conrods, 8,000rpm and climate control that works. Look at the brand new Ferrari 360 Modena and it is a copy of all these things - Ferrari had a big wake-up call in 1990 and it has taken 9 years to respond, which is good because it is a great marque that was falling behind. I work for another car company now but I am lucky enough that I do still have my dream car in the garage - an original 1991 NSX. Now with 38,000 miles on the clock it drives as good as the day it was made - only worn leather seats give the age away. Living near London, it never fails to provide an unforgettable drive on the english country lanes and is so much more exclusive than the Ferraris and Porsches that are common in London. On a trip to the Monaco Grand Prix, down through the autobahns of Germany, cruising at 150 mph was a doddle and believe me, you do get respect from the Porsche, BMW drivers who do know what an NSX is. If you accept it for the automotive technical tour de force that it is then the NSX is still a masterpiece and one final point, I know Gordon Murray who designed the McLaren F1 and he drove an NSX from the day it was launched as his everyday car and used it as the benchmark for the F1 roadcar - I don't think you can get any higher praise than that.
-- Graeme Holt, May 24, 1999"
Okay well, I'm really tired so I'm going to end it... If you've gotten this far, congrats, thanks for keeping an open mind guys.
Last edited by Jsn408EVO; Aug 4, 2003 at 01:59 PM.
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From: Between the Blue and the Sand
Good write up, man. This being the Evo site, it's a given that we like the Evo....thats why we are here. But other makes will always get a mixed reception, no matter how well it performs. The individuals in this thread who bash the NSX, obviously have no idea what the car is about. They have no idea that it was designed and built to be a supercar. They just bash it because it is a Honda product....and many people here seem to have some sort of rivalry with that make.
I spent time in the passenger seat of a mildly race prepped 2000 NSX at Gingerman Speedway last year. Let me tell you, it was the single fastest vehicle I have ever been in. It stuck to the corners like nothing else. It's back end rotated quite well in the corners....and it accelerated like a slingshot out of those corners!
I'll tell you, if I had a $90k car budget, I wouldn't be buying a 911, or a BMW product......I'd be getting an NSX..
SC~who can't wait to see the NSX redesign....
I spent time in the passenger seat of a mildly race prepped 2000 NSX at Gingerman Speedway last year. Let me tell you, it was the single fastest vehicle I have ever been in. It stuck to the corners like nothing else. It's back end rotated quite well in the corners....and it accelerated like a slingshot out of those corners!
I'll tell you, if I had a $90k car budget, I wouldn't be buying a 911, or a BMW product......I'd be getting an NSX..
SC~who can't wait to see the NSX redesign....
Jsn408EVO, well presented information. I did not mean to "bash" the NSX. Oddly you touched on a point I considered; that being buying a used 911 or NSX. However, with that comes A) no warranty, B) much higher insurance, C) inability to use as winter car, D) assuming expensive maintenance perhaps immediately, E) my 130 lb. Alaskan Malamute is definitely not going to make it in the back of an NSX.
I guess the point is FOR ME, the used NSX or 911 for that matter is simply impracticle. I don't have the luxury of being able to buy a car as a toy, I have drive it year round and maintain it year round. I don't think anyone can argue that the NSX is a more practical car at any price. That said, owning a practical car with performance near that of a "supercar" is the best of both worlds.
I am a big fan of the NSX, I own the original brochure (book) that looks like aluminum on the cover. I have driven 3 different NSX models over the years, and all have had awesome handling. However, my 6'4" height makes sitting in any NSX uncomfortable, except for the T that was in Florida (we had the top off.) The point has been raised several times that the NSX was designed as a racecar: last time I checked, the EVO is a racecar, and was designed solely for that purpose originally.
To be honest with you if I had $90k, I would be buying an RS6. I like the sleeper look, and any 4 door sedan with the #s the RS6 can put down and fit 4 comfortably is my ideal car.
My favorite thing about the NSX is actually the aluminum jack, maybe I should retrofit one to my EVO for lighter weight.
I guess the point is FOR ME, the used NSX or 911 for that matter is simply impracticle. I don't have the luxury of being able to buy a car as a toy, I have drive it year round and maintain it year round. I don't think anyone can argue that the NSX is a more practical car at any price. That said, owning a practical car with performance near that of a "supercar" is the best of both worlds.
I am a big fan of the NSX, I own the original brochure (book) that looks like aluminum on the cover. I have driven 3 different NSX models over the years, and all have had awesome handling. However, my 6'4" height makes sitting in any NSX uncomfortable, except for the T that was in Florida (we had the top off.) The point has been raised several times that the NSX was designed as a racecar: last time I checked, the EVO is a racecar, and was designed solely for that purpose originally.
To be honest with you if I had $90k, I would be buying an RS6. I like the sleeper look, and any 4 door sedan with the #s the RS6 can put down and fit 4 comfortably is my ideal car.
My favorite thing about the NSX is actually the aluminum jack, maybe I should retrofit one to my EVO for lighter weight.
As much as I love the NSX, for $90K I would much rather purchase a Skyline GTR R-34 V.spec II Nur, but that's just me.
Hell, for $70K, I'd rather have an M5 over a NSX anyday. Can't compete with those fearless autobahn stormers for sure.
Hell, for $70K, I'd rather have an M5 over a NSX anyday. Can't compete with those fearless autobahn stormers for sure.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Yeah ImportPepe I know how you mean. The NSX is an awsome car no doubt. Even though the basic design has been around since '91 it still looks good. Like Jsn408EVO's well put together write up states, you can go on and on about the performance of the NSX. However yeah, I too would rather go with the M5...esp the next generation thats getting ready to drop....for 78K you will get a 5.5L V10 with an est 500hp and 0 to 60 times around 3.9....and you get to bring more then one person along! Of course two seater or four door...its all about personal choice....both are awsome cars!
In Timeout
Joined: Jun 2003
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I had a NSX for 6 years and I have to say it was a good car. BUT I have had my evo about a month and let some friends drive it who drove the NSX and they ALL said WOW this is BETTER then the NSX and feel and the NSX you had to work hard, in the evo ANYONE can feel like a pro the 1st time they drive it.
Stage 1 on it's way from Vishnu
Stage 1 on it's way from Vishnu
Originally posted by StriktlyBidness
Yea that is pretty dumb. I have taken COUNTLESS people for rides who afterwards have been like, "I had no idea..."
People really should become more aquainted with a car before trashing it. I think it boils down to jealousy personally. I think a lot of the muscle car guys are getting very intimidated by our little 4-cylinder's capabilities.
Yea that is pretty dumb. I have taken COUNTLESS people for rides who afterwards have been like, "I had no idea..."
People really should become more aquainted with a car before trashing it. I think it boils down to jealousy personally. I think a lot of the muscle car guys are getting very intimidated by our little 4-cylinder's capabilities.
In Timeout
Joined: Jun 2003
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You can not even get a NSX-R here retard. When talking about something make sure you have a clue. I had a NSX too for 6 years.
Originally posted by I4K20C
You know what i find funny is how you guys are all saying that these people are dissing on the Evo b4 giving it a chance.. only realizing that it has the name "lancer" in it... yet.. you are all doing the same thing bashing the NSX.. why is it so bad? B/c the numbers say soo?? B/C you're magazine racing?? Or maybe you like bashing it b/c its a 260 N/A car that can whoop some Ferrari's and Lambo's?? Is that why.. go get Best Motoring and you will see why it comes with it's price tag..
Also i wouldn't exactly call the Evo a supercar.. it's one of the best performance cars you can get on the market for under 30k.. no doubt.. but a supercar is more than speed and handeling..
Argh not sure if it was Best Motoring.. here was the finish.. i think that's pretty nice..
F50, 911 GT2, Murcielago, NSX-R, Gemballa 911, 911 C4S.
NSX tied the new Lamborghini and beat the Ferrari 575M (a $230,000 car mind you) by two seconds around a race course... For people also that like numbers...
And the fact that it's an allunimun body and it's hand made.. could make the price tag a little high as well..
You know what i find funny is how you guys are all saying that these people are dissing on the Evo b4 giving it a chance.. only realizing that it has the name "lancer" in it... yet.. you are all doing the same thing bashing the NSX.. why is it so bad? B/c the numbers say soo?? B/C you're magazine racing?? Or maybe you like bashing it b/c its a 260 N/A car that can whoop some Ferrari's and Lambo's?? Is that why.. go get Best Motoring and you will see why it comes with it's price tag..
Also i wouldn't exactly call the Evo a supercar.. it's one of the best performance cars you can get on the market for under 30k.. no doubt.. but a supercar is more than speed and handeling..
Argh not sure if it was Best Motoring.. here was the finish.. i think that's pretty nice..
F50, 911 GT2, Murcielago, NSX-R, Gemballa 911, 911 C4S.
NSX tied the new Lamborghini and beat the Ferrari 575M (a $230,000 car mind you) by two seconds around a race course... For people also that like numbers...
And the fact that it's an allunimun body and it's hand made.. could make the price tag a little high as well..
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From: Los Gatos CA
Just doing a quick check before I leave. Hey guys I'm glad you took the comments so well. As far as the M5, RS6, and even the Evo go, I completely agree with you! If given 75k and I had only one car it would be a tough choice. It's quite impressive to see manufactures coming out with cars that are both practical yet perform - ESPECIALLY the Evo. 75k buys both a used NSX and an Evo - that might solve that problem
Hammerli - Insurance for the NSX isn't all that expensive - someone mentioned that their 2002 s2000 cost more than their 2001 NSX, and the friend who this account belongs to said insurance quoted him higher for a WRX than a 91 NSX. BTW, you are so lucky to have that book!!! I'm very jealous
And about the m5 performing on track, I've heard it over heats etc... No doubt its one serious car on the road however - but I think an Evo would easily take care of it on the track - or on a rally course
Hammerli - Insurance for the NSX isn't all that expensive - someone mentioned that their 2002 s2000 cost more than their 2001 NSX, and the friend who this account belongs to said insurance quoted him higher for a WRX than a 91 NSX. BTW, you are so lucky to have that book!!! I'm very jealous
And about the m5 performing on track, I've heard it over heats etc... No doubt its one serious car on the road however - but I think an Evo would easily take care of it on the track - or on a rally course
In Timeout
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Yep, I was on there about 5-6 years. I was going to do GJ turbo but did not want to put 20k into the car. I will do that with the evo and I MAY if I am lucky be able to beat big AL, lol 
Doing 1-2 track events a month and not the 1/4 mile time.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jsn408EVO
Ryanmcd2 - are you from prime? Your name sounds familiar. Glad to hear you like the Evo, best of luck - those turbo upgrades should make it a real killer! [/QUO
Doing 1-2 track events a month and not the 1/4 mile time.[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jsn408EVO
Ryanmcd2 - are you from prime? Your name sounds familiar. Glad to hear you like the Evo, best of luck - those turbo upgrades should make it a real killer! [/QUO
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 250
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From: Chicago
Originally posted by Ryanmcd2
You can not even get a NSX-R here retard. When talking about something make sure you have a clue. I had a NSX too for 6 years.
You can not even get a NSX-R here retard. When talking about something make sure you have a clue. I had a NSX too for 6 years.
And I'm glad you had a NSX!!! Here's a
for ya!!!
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From: Algonquin IL.
Re: Motor Trend Sept 03 Mail Section EVO
Originally posted by Mychael99
Hey all! I just got my Sept 03 issue of Motor Trend in the mail. In the letters section there was several comments from readers regurading the EVO's inclusion in the Top Speed shootout that appeared in Motor Trend a couple of months ago. One person wrote "How did the Mitsubishi sneak past Security to get into this test? I'm as impressed as you guys are with its performance numbers, but in this field of georgeous, muscular shapes, it looks like a brik with a sport wing." Another person had the nerve to write "But if you were having difficulty finding Whats Not Hot about the Lancer Evo, may I offer something like "butt ugly"! He went on to say that " The Evo looks like some teenager stole his moms kiddy hauler and slapped on a ridiculous rear wing".
If that was not bad enough another person was wondering why the NSX was not included in the test, saying that "its the only Japanese supercar (the Evo isn't a supercar, just a tarted up Lancer). I guess that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they really need to get a clue! Oh well, was wondering if any of you have seen this issue yet and what your thoughts are!
Hey all! I just got my Sept 03 issue of Motor Trend in the mail. In the letters section there was several comments from readers regurading the EVO's inclusion in the Top Speed shootout that appeared in Motor Trend a couple of months ago. One person wrote "How did the Mitsubishi sneak past Security to get into this test? I'm as impressed as you guys are with its performance numbers, but in this field of georgeous, muscular shapes, it looks like a brik with a sport wing." Another person had the nerve to write "But if you were having difficulty finding Whats Not Hot about the Lancer Evo, may I offer something like "butt ugly"! He went on to say that " The Evo looks like some teenager stole his moms kiddy hauler and slapped on a ridiculous rear wing".
If that was not bad enough another person was wondering why the NSX was not included in the test, saying that "its the only Japanese supercar (the Evo isn't a supercar, just a tarted up Lancer). I guess that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but they really need to get a clue! Oh well, was wondering if any of you have seen this issue yet and what your thoughts are!
those peeps who bash the evo just dont know what they are missing
