EVO Parts Selection Discussion
EVO Parts Selection Discussion
I would like to open a discussion on Parts Selection. There seems to be 3 most popular methods of parts selection in the EVO community.
1 – Manufacturer or Tuner specific. This person follows staged upgrades from a single manufacturer, or has a tuner build his car using all of the parts available from that company. All Buschur parts, all AMS parts, all Vishnu parts, all Works parts, etc. . . About the only time this person deviates from the one product line is if they need something the manufacturer does not offer.
2- Best Bang for the Buck. This person tries to get the most power for the least amount of $$. This person may have things like an eBay exhaust, eBay intercooler, intercooler pipes they bought used, etc. They are not brand specific, but rather try to get the most parts for the least amount of money by buying used, buying off eBay, buying knock off parts, etc.
3 – Best Combination of Parts for Your Specific Needs. This person looks at each individual part separately and tries to pick exactly which one out of all the brands out there will best meet his need. This is repeated with each subsequent part. The system as a whole is also considered, to be sure there is no interference with one part vs. another. This person may have a short block from Buschur, a fuel system from AMS, a pieced together turbo kit using custom-spec parts, tuning by Ivey, etc, etc. . .
Because every consumer has different capabilities regarding things like finances, technical knowledge, mechanical knowledge, time, intended use of the car – no ONE of these methods of parts selection can be right for every individual out there. There are also other things to consider. If you stick with only one manufacturer you may be more likely to get repeat customer discounts, more in-depth tuning, and even sponsorships. If you pick each part individually with no regard to brand, you may be able to put together a system that makes a bit more power, handles better, is lighter . . .
I would like to open up a discussion on this topic. How did you pick the parts that are on your car? Why did you pick the parts that are on your car? Do you fit into one of these categories? Would you do anything differently if you could start from scratch.
NOTE – NO VENDOR BASHING WILL BE TOLERATED. IF I SEE ANY POSTS THAT APPEAR TO BE VENDOR BASHING I WILL REPORT IT TO A MODERATOR. IF THEY DEEM IT INAPPROPRIATE YOUR POST WILL BE DELEATED AND ANY INFRACIONS WILL BE DEALT WITH IN THE APPROPRIATE MANNER PER EVOM RULES.
I will share my thoughts and parts selection process for my car in a future post.
EVOlutionary
1 – Manufacturer or Tuner specific. This person follows staged upgrades from a single manufacturer, or has a tuner build his car using all of the parts available from that company. All Buschur parts, all AMS parts, all Vishnu parts, all Works parts, etc. . . About the only time this person deviates from the one product line is if they need something the manufacturer does not offer.
2- Best Bang for the Buck. This person tries to get the most power for the least amount of $$. This person may have things like an eBay exhaust, eBay intercooler, intercooler pipes they bought used, etc. They are not brand specific, but rather try to get the most parts for the least amount of money by buying used, buying off eBay, buying knock off parts, etc.
3 – Best Combination of Parts for Your Specific Needs. This person looks at each individual part separately and tries to pick exactly which one out of all the brands out there will best meet his need. This is repeated with each subsequent part. The system as a whole is also considered, to be sure there is no interference with one part vs. another. This person may have a short block from Buschur, a fuel system from AMS, a pieced together turbo kit using custom-spec parts, tuning by Ivey, etc, etc. . .
Because every consumer has different capabilities regarding things like finances, technical knowledge, mechanical knowledge, time, intended use of the car – no ONE of these methods of parts selection can be right for every individual out there. There are also other things to consider. If you stick with only one manufacturer you may be more likely to get repeat customer discounts, more in-depth tuning, and even sponsorships. If you pick each part individually with no regard to brand, you may be able to put together a system that makes a bit more power, handles better, is lighter . . .
I would like to open up a discussion on this topic. How did you pick the parts that are on your car? Why did you pick the parts that are on your car? Do you fit into one of these categories? Would you do anything differently if you could start from scratch.
NOTE – NO VENDOR BASHING WILL BE TOLERATED. IF I SEE ANY POSTS THAT APPEAR TO BE VENDOR BASHING I WILL REPORT IT TO A MODERATOR. IF THEY DEEM IT INAPPROPRIATE YOUR POST WILL BE DELEATED AND ANY INFRACIONS WILL BE DEALT WITH IN THE APPROPRIATE MANNER PER EVOM RULES.
I will share my thoughts and parts selection process for my car in a future post.
EVOlutionary
Last edited by EVOlutionary; Jan 16, 2009 at 08:31 AM.
I think I fit into category 3 – picking the best combination of parts for my intended use of the car. Of course some attention was paid to cost as I’m not independently wealthy, but cost was usually not a deciding factor. I have a mish-mash of parts from many manufacturers – Nisei, PPI, Switzer, AMS, Forced Performance, Greddy, Aspec, DHP, Voltex, GSC, ARC, CCW, WedsSport, Girodisc, Ultrashield, Devo, Buschur, Keys, Works, Turbosmart, AEM, Sun/Cyber Evo. I’ve also had the opportunity to work with 5 different tuners over the years. Some I worked with closely and learned from over a period of time as they helped make my car better, others touched my car once then I knew they were not right for me.
My goal for the car was to win a National Championship in Street Modified class of SCCA Solo2 autocross. In the past I wanted my EVO to be a nice daily driver, a drag car, and an autocross car all in one. I finally realized that although the EVO can be good in all categories or excel in any of those categories, to be the best in any one would require compromises in the other two. This lead me to my current setup.
To achieve my goal I figured I would need 400-450whp and equal torque. I would need the car to be as light as possible, especially losing front end weight. I would need the torque to come on as soon as possible, not any more than a couple hundred RPM later than stock, as well as good power in the 5500-8000 rpm range as that's where we spend the majority of an autocross run. I need the throttle response to be 100% smooth and linear - you give it 1/2 gas, you get about 1/2 boost and 1/2 power. Starting from stock, here is how I went about achieving these goals:
1 – If possible, start with a known-good platform capable of winning in a lower class. This is probably the most helpful step when getting started with a project. Start with a setup you know works perfectly, then expand on it in areas you need a little more. I was fortunate enough to be able to start off with the Showcase Mitsubishi BSP autocross setup, and build from there. Andy and John developed an EVO setup for ESP/BSP class that has been unbeaten in 4 years. The new owners of those cars have undoubtedly made some tweaks and improvements, but the basics I believe are the same.
- drop in filter in stock airbox
- licp
- Works 02 housing and downpipe
- Aspec titanium cat-delete pipe
- Greddy Ti cat back
- reflash stock ecu for 100 octane
- EBC or MBC
2 – From there plan your mods. As far as power goes, I knew I wanted ~75whp more than the BSP setup with minimal loss in low end power and exactly the same kind of power delivery and driveability. Here is what I added/changed and why:
- kept the drop-in Works filter and stock airbox with stock intake tube. Several tuners whos opinion I trust said that’s the way to go. Smooth idle, draws in nice cold air, well-designed from the factory. Probably the last restriction in the system to deal with.
- FP EVO Green turbo. I was one of the first in line to get this turbo. I’d been through the stock VIII turbo and the 20G9-5 variant. Once I saw the first dyno graphs on the Green I knew it would be THE hot ticket for autocross. Nearly stock spool up and boost recover while flowing a ton more up top. The next closest option was to keep the EVO9 turbo, but I decided that 20-40whp above 6Krpm was worth more to me than 20ft# below 3.5Krpm.
- Nisei LICP and UICP. Testing of UICP/LICP by BR early on showed good gains with both with no real drawbacks. Needs for this piece were aluminum construction for weight savings, fits with stock airbox, and hard mounts to take stress off the joints to reduce the chance of blowing off a pipe. The Nisei units fit the bill perfectly.
- ARC intercooler. I could have saved a couple pounds of weight with the stocker, or made more power but added 20# of weight to the very front of my car with a race core, but I found the ARC unit to be the best compromise between cooling, flow, and light weight.
- Stock BOV. I had been through many BOVs and the only one that worked flawlessly with no fluttering or surging was the stocker. It held boost pretty well for the pressures I was going to run so I decided there was no reason to change it.
- Stock throttle body. I had used a 65mm TB before and felt the low throttle position modulation was not what I wanted. With the larger throttle body smaller movements of the gas pedal allowed larger changes in airflow. I chose to lose a few peak HP in favor of better modulation.
- Stock intake manifold. From the dyno comparisons I’d seen most aftermarket intake manifolds lost some spool up while gaining significantly on the top end. I felt the stocker would give me the powerband I needed for autocross situations. There have been some improvements in this are since I first built the car – the new cast Magnus unit looks very promising. It looks like it will lose almost no low end torque while still giving good gains up top, so this is set to be tested on my car soon.
- GSC S1 cams. I’ve used stock, HKS 280s and Revolvers in the past. After looking at what was out there and talking with the guys at GSC I decided on the S1 grind. It has stock idle, good off-boost response, no loss of low end power, huge midrange power as well as a bit of a boost up top. Perfect for my application.
- PPI ported/machined stock exhaust manifold. This unit has the excess material machined off the outside of the manifold to save a couple pounds. Gives great low-end response with stock-like spool, as well as some power gains on the top end. I later changed over to the Aspec Titanium tubular manifold that only weighs 5 pounds. While the weight savings were nice, I found it lost some low end power and boost did not come on as soon or as smoothly. I cold actually feel the difference between 3K and 4.5Krpm in the seat of my pants without even looking at the dyno graph. It has since been removed and I’ve gone back to the ported stocker to give me a little harder rip coming out of tight corners. In this case a little quicker spool up was worth an extra 8 pounds of extra weight.
- Works 02 housing. With plans to possibly run a tubular exhaust manifold at some point one requirement was for the 02 housing to have a brace that mounts to the block to take some stress off the manifold. The couple pounds of extra weight vs the eBay sheetmetal 02 housing was worth it for the durability. Plus, I and several other have had boost creep issues with some of the eBay 02 housings out there.
- Aspec titanium test pipe and Greddy TI cat-back. It’s all about weight. I wanted a full exhaust rather than a turn down because some tracks are cracking down on sound levels, and these were the lightest out there.
- Reflashed stock ECU. Used the AEM EMS before and it worked well, but with all the advances being made with the stock ECU there was nothing I needed that the AEM could do that the stocker could not. Plus I feel the stock MAF-based ECU allows much smoother throttle/engine control and better control at lower air volumes.
- Turbosmart eBoost2 EBC. I had used the Hallman for years and loved it. The only reason I switched to the eBoost2 is because it allows boost vs. RPM. Let’s say you’re on a track that is more slippery than average – you can dial back the boost between 3500and 4500 rpms to lower your torque spike when you get on the gas coming out of a tight corner. There IS such a thing as TOO MUCH torque in autocross. I found that out the hard way! J Basically you can use the boost controller to attenuate your dyno graph in any RPM range you want.
- E85 fuel. A couple years ago I went through over 100 gallons of VP C16 in one autocross season. That $$ adds up FAST! E85 offers nearly the same performance as C16 at 1/4 the cost. Plus it also acts in a way like alcohol injection to cool the combustion charge and allow you to run more timing and more boost than the octane rating would lead you believe. Another benefit is that I can find it in nearly any large city in the Midwest.
That's pretty much it for how I decided on my power producing parts. That combo was good for over 400whp from 5000-7500 rpms, and over 350whp from 4000-8000 rpm on a Dynojet. I will post later about my parts selection for other areas of the car.
EVOlutionary
My goal for the car was to win a National Championship in Street Modified class of SCCA Solo2 autocross. In the past I wanted my EVO to be a nice daily driver, a drag car, and an autocross car all in one. I finally realized that although the EVO can be good in all categories or excel in any of those categories, to be the best in any one would require compromises in the other two. This lead me to my current setup.
To achieve my goal I figured I would need 400-450whp and equal torque. I would need the car to be as light as possible, especially losing front end weight. I would need the torque to come on as soon as possible, not any more than a couple hundred RPM later than stock, as well as good power in the 5500-8000 rpm range as that's where we spend the majority of an autocross run. I need the throttle response to be 100% smooth and linear - you give it 1/2 gas, you get about 1/2 boost and 1/2 power. Starting from stock, here is how I went about achieving these goals:
1 – If possible, start with a known-good platform capable of winning in a lower class. This is probably the most helpful step when getting started with a project. Start with a setup you know works perfectly, then expand on it in areas you need a little more. I was fortunate enough to be able to start off with the Showcase Mitsubishi BSP autocross setup, and build from there. Andy and John developed an EVO setup for ESP/BSP class that has been unbeaten in 4 years. The new owners of those cars have undoubtedly made some tweaks and improvements, but the basics I believe are the same.
- drop in filter in stock airbox
- licp
- Works 02 housing and downpipe
- Aspec titanium cat-delete pipe
- Greddy Ti cat back
- reflash stock ecu for 100 octane
- EBC or MBC
2 – From there plan your mods. As far as power goes, I knew I wanted ~75whp more than the BSP setup with minimal loss in low end power and exactly the same kind of power delivery and driveability. Here is what I added/changed and why:
- kept the drop-in Works filter and stock airbox with stock intake tube. Several tuners whos opinion I trust said that’s the way to go. Smooth idle, draws in nice cold air, well-designed from the factory. Probably the last restriction in the system to deal with.
- FP EVO Green turbo. I was one of the first in line to get this turbo. I’d been through the stock VIII turbo and the 20G9-5 variant. Once I saw the first dyno graphs on the Green I knew it would be THE hot ticket for autocross. Nearly stock spool up and boost recover while flowing a ton more up top. The next closest option was to keep the EVO9 turbo, but I decided that 20-40whp above 6Krpm was worth more to me than 20ft# below 3.5Krpm.
- Nisei LICP and UICP. Testing of UICP/LICP by BR early on showed good gains with both with no real drawbacks. Needs for this piece were aluminum construction for weight savings, fits with stock airbox, and hard mounts to take stress off the joints to reduce the chance of blowing off a pipe. The Nisei units fit the bill perfectly.
- ARC intercooler. I could have saved a couple pounds of weight with the stocker, or made more power but added 20# of weight to the very front of my car with a race core, but I found the ARC unit to be the best compromise between cooling, flow, and light weight.
- Stock BOV. I had been through many BOVs and the only one that worked flawlessly with no fluttering or surging was the stocker. It held boost pretty well for the pressures I was going to run so I decided there was no reason to change it.
- Stock throttle body. I had used a 65mm TB before and felt the low throttle position modulation was not what I wanted. With the larger throttle body smaller movements of the gas pedal allowed larger changes in airflow. I chose to lose a few peak HP in favor of better modulation.
- Stock intake manifold. From the dyno comparisons I’d seen most aftermarket intake manifolds lost some spool up while gaining significantly on the top end. I felt the stocker would give me the powerband I needed for autocross situations. There have been some improvements in this are since I first built the car – the new cast Magnus unit looks very promising. It looks like it will lose almost no low end torque while still giving good gains up top, so this is set to be tested on my car soon.
- GSC S1 cams. I’ve used stock, HKS 280s and Revolvers in the past. After looking at what was out there and talking with the guys at GSC I decided on the S1 grind. It has stock idle, good off-boost response, no loss of low end power, huge midrange power as well as a bit of a boost up top. Perfect for my application.
- PPI ported/machined stock exhaust manifold. This unit has the excess material machined off the outside of the manifold to save a couple pounds. Gives great low-end response with stock-like spool, as well as some power gains on the top end. I later changed over to the Aspec Titanium tubular manifold that only weighs 5 pounds. While the weight savings were nice, I found it lost some low end power and boost did not come on as soon or as smoothly. I cold actually feel the difference between 3K and 4.5Krpm in the seat of my pants without even looking at the dyno graph. It has since been removed and I’ve gone back to the ported stocker to give me a little harder rip coming out of tight corners. In this case a little quicker spool up was worth an extra 8 pounds of extra weight.
- Works 02 housing. With plans to possibly run a tubular exhaust manifold at some point one requirement was for the 02 housing to have a brace that mounts to the block to take some stress off the manifold. The couple pounds of extra weight vs the eBay sheetmetal 02 housing was worth it for the durability. Plus, I and several other have had boost creep issues with some of the eBay 02 housings out there.
- Aspec titanium test pipe and Greddy TI cat-back. It’s all about weight. I wanted a full exhaust rather than a turn down because some tracks are cracking down on sound levels, and these were the lightest out there.
- Reflashed stock ECU. Used the AEM EMS before and it worked well, but with all the advances being made with the stock ECU there was nothing I needed that the AEM could do that the stocker could not. Plus I feel the stock MAF-based ECU allows much smoother throttle/engine control and better control at lower air volumes.
- Turbosmart eBoost2 EBC. I had used the Hallman for years and loved it. The only reason I switched to the eBoost2 is because it allows boost vs. RPM. Let’s say you’re on a track that is more slippery than average – you can dial back the boost between 3500and 4500 rpms to lower your torque spike when you get on the gas coming out of a tight corner. There IS such a thing as TOO MUCH torque in autocross. I found that out the hard way! J Basically you can use the boost controller to attenuate your dyno graph in any RPM range you want.
- E85 fuel. A couple years ago I went through over 100 gallons of VP C16 in one autocross season. That $$ adds up FAST! E85 offers nearly the same performance as C16 at 1/4 the cost. Plus it also acts in a way like alcohol injection to cool the combustion charge and allow you to run more timing and more boost than the octane rating would lead you believe. Another benefit is that I can find it in nearly any large city in the Midwest.
That's pretty much it for how I decided on my power producing parts. That combo was good for over 400whp from 5000-7500 rpms, and over 350whp from 4000-8000 rpm on a Dynojet. I will post later about my parts selection for other areas of the car.
EVOlutionary
Last edited by EVOlutionary; Jan 16, 2009 at 08:10 PM.
What I'm interested in is why you picked to go with them. Their history? Their parts? What are the goals for your car?
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From: somewhere testing various tires, brakes, and suspensions.
How did you pick the parts that are on your car? Why did you pick the parts that are on your car? Do you fit into one of these categories? Would you do anything differently if you could start from scratch.
Overall, not much I would do differently with the car. I kick myself for getting ride of my other car though.
RMR Air Induction - I knew that I did not want to change the turbo to MAF piping. But there were some gains on HP that I could use on the track (top end).
Forge DV - my plastic one crapped out on me. I then went to the old school Greddy Type S for its adjustability, then that diaphragm melted (2x), then went to the Forge. I can adjust it down if I add PSI or go soft for DD.
Apexi GT Catback and DC Sports Downpipe - this is where section 1 comes in. I ran Apexi products on my Focus and knew the quality of the part. I also knew that some state rules are kinder than others. So I went with the DC Sports cat-delete downpipe because of good fitment and 3in design.
Forge MBC - I had the old school Hallman ES before. Worked great until 4 season driving rendered it frozen. I went with the Forge UNOS because of its ease to click for PSI adjustments. I have installed a few of them prior to getting one for myself.
Walbro 255, NGK BPR8EIX - meh, general needs.
F3.2/ACT Prolite - A clutch that could handle the repeated stress of HPDE's and quick changes for AXing. The Prolite favors track days and hurts me more for getting off the line in AXing - a trade off here.
SmikeEvo Flash - I am a techno-geek. I originally was flashed by TurboTrix, they did a good job, but I have changed and added over the years. So the need to learn how to do it myself came up. Last year before some new mods the car trapped 116-117 on 93 oct. Leads me to think its good on power.
AMS Lower IC Piping, AMS FMIC- Similar to EVOlutionary. I have one of the original AMS LICP's (no bracket). Its Al so lighter and helps with that return to spool - good in both areas I frequent. FMIC came from PPI, great price and helps with heat sink on the track.
ARP Head Studs, Power Ent. 1.2mm HG - I was one of the unlucky ones who ran 25-28psi and had the head studs stretch some under load, thus killing my headgasket. 70k on this setup now.
Satisfied GS5/HT10, Amsoil DOT4, SS Lines, Slotted Rotors (will be blank next season), HLM BDCK - major safety area for me. I put a lot of time into what pads I use where and how the pads work for me when I am using them. I have gone through tons of sets. So far, this is my favorite combo.
Swift Spec R Springs/Bilstein HD Struts, Swift Stabilizer Bars - another area that I have put a ton of time into either researching, trying new combos, pushing the car to its limits and still meeting my needs. I am very happy with the results so far.
Whiteline RB, CF Lip, HLM Tow Hooks, Vortex Gen - some safety, some aerodynamics, some structural rigidity.
EPM O2 - bit of option 2 here. Bang for buck hp/tq. I picked up 25whp and 42wtq with this part. So gains to cost - its great. Downside, I need to fab up a muffler to make it more quite for dB rules.
3 – Best Combination of Parts for Your Specific Needs. This person looks at each individual part separately and tries to pick exactly which one out of all the brands out there will best meet his need.
Power: Works TBE w/HFC - perfect fit, relatively quiet, Hallman MBC - reliable, predictable, invisible in the engine bay, Works dropin filter - didn't want the hassle of an open-element design, Buschur FMIC (purchased by my insurance company to replace a scraped stocker, fits with no cutting, allowed us to tune further as well as for consistency), and a good tune (again, drivability is paramount).
Suspension: Factory Bilstein setup (love the compliance), Whiteline F/R anti-roll bars, and a GTSpec trunk cage. 99.9% of my driving is on the street, I bought the Evo, mainly, for its handling. Setup as such, with a relativity aggressive alignment the car is fairly neutral allowing for some margin of error.
Brakes: I run Performance Friction Z, which to their credit have not gone up in smoke, Baer rotors (less rotational mass), ATE fluid, and SS lines. This setup works very well for my needs.
Rotational mass: I only have one complain with the IX - its weight. With that in mind, I've reduced the car's rotational mass by a little over 40lbs with lighter rotors (Baer F/R), wheels (RPFI @ 15.5lbs) and tires (Hankook Evo @~23lbs). The car feels significantly more tossable and fun to drive. In terms of driving feel, this made the biggest impact of all.
Other: Hella truck horn, something every street pilot should have. <grin>