My rev limit is set to 7750 (higher than my stock 7500). My 16G and intake manifold keep me from producing power any higher than that. The Evo has a better manifold and better 16G, but it would probably take a larger turbo and some cams to produce power up there.

 

I think everyone should STFU and drive...

Dogmatic views on any subject usually lead to anger...anger leads to hate...which leads to...

 

I was at Pruven this last weekend with Eric and Shiv and others. I'm amazed at how well this car now drives. I have a stage one. Turoback exhaust with highflow cat, Cam gears and Exede. My car dynoed at 305 WHP after shiv was done. The whole event was great and I can not be happier with my Evo. There are always different opinions but for me, my Evo runs incredibly smooth and fast. I'd do stage one again anytime.

Eric great day on sunday and Shiv thanks.

 

Isn't the XEDE also just a MAF trimming computer?

During acceleration, an increased amount of fuel according to the degree of acceleration is injected simultaneously into all four cylinders every 10 msecs., in addition to the sequential injection. I'm pretty sure that the MAF freqeuncy gets factored in.

But if it does, that is just one of the crappy side affects of a piggyback. There are tons more.

The Evo's ECU is quite similar to a DSM's ECU, however. I've already named some of the key differences. Even the Evo Tech manual states "The fuel injection control is basically the same as
that for the 2.0-liter turbocharged engine installed on
the previous ECLIPSE."

So what is the difference between the two that makes a DSM akin to a 2 stroke motorcycle in terms of emissions, yet makes the Evo so much better?

Your own web page states that you charge $100 for the user tuning software. But I also see that there is a download available.

http://www.vishnutuning.com/xede_evo.htm

That wasn't an attack. I was just wondering how many of your customers tune their own cars with the XEDE.

 

The thing I don't get is, if you are tuning for conservative A/F ratios, then why are you having to pull timing?

In the Vishnu forum, a customer said that an intake resulted in lower timing, which he felt was a negative side effect (and it was explained to him what was actually going on). So if we do the same thing with the XEDE, now it's okay?

I think some EVO owners are dismissing some DSM owners as being inferior or something. Like they are better because their car is brand new and came with more horsepower (and a bigger pricetag) from the factory. The truth is, there's still a large amount of similarities between the car that knowledge from DSMs can be applied to EVO's. And because we've been working with DSMs for a long time, we can tell you what is already out there that works. We've already gotten screwed by fly-by-night companies and vaporware products (get me a Mutt turbo!) and we're a pretty close group of people, so we don't like to see that happen to other people.

I'm NOT saying that Vishnu is a fly-by-night company. I accept the fact that I don't know everything about the XEDE nor can I tune it. I will accept that Shiv tunes differently than some of us. Great. Now I will also say, from my understanding of the XEDE, it doesn't seem to offer much more than other piggybacks and it is quite expensive. It seems kind of a rip, so our natural instinct is to tell you what else is out there that works.

Just one last thing, I've yet to see an EBC that offers a significant advantage to my $45 Joe P.

 

heyy would you look at that, only 9 pages and there you have it, pruven performance some guy dyno'd 305hp with turboback, exede, and cam gears... and customer claims car runs unaturally smooth....

for all those who think their cars run fine off boost controll over 21psi and afc, do you really think that down the road your car will be in as good of shape as a cleaner running, 18-19psi car which achieved slighly better power due to more multifaceted controll... i think not fellas...

i ran my galant vr-4 and my eclipse on those methods and now i am evo with exede all the way, for gas mileage, smoothness, linear power, and the fact that it just doesnt feel like you are making your power by shoving your engine to its threshhold but by tuning it....

shiv is hands down thorough, and if you want to tune your car how i tuned my 2500 dollar gvr4, go for it, if you want your car to sounds and feel like a porche twin turbo quality, well im sure you can find his number.

fun thing about tuning, options, love them dont hate them...

 

Amazing. Are all evo people like this? I'm reading posts where someone is either dishing out BS info or *****ing about someone dishing out BS info. Why not post some dynos and 1/4 times like the dude asked. I can't believe I just sat here and read half of this thread. geesh

 

Because there are none worth posting. None have come close to what Dave is doing with simple proven mods. Shiv has not once posted a relevant comment on topic with this thread does that surprise you? Dsm-performance never posted a Mutt time slip or dyno sheet either.

That's exactly with this is all hype supported by an ignorant misinformed customer base. Once again, another part that sounds cool on paper but has not done anything worth mentioning on the dyno or at the track.

 

I think part of the reason Shiv's customers are not posting times is because we dont have them. I haven't taken my car to a drag strip, and may never. I do run road courses, if you're willing to come to where I drive I'd be happy to compare lap times with you.

Comparing numbers from different cars with different drivers on different tracks (or dynos) with different sets of mods at different tempratures running different gas at different altitudes means there are a whole bunch of reasons the numbers will be different.

To really test you need to change parts on the same car and keep all of the other factors even. By eliminating most of the variables you can get a much more accurate picture of what a give mod meant to your car. I'm sure you guys have heard this before. I did do some of that kind of testing with my car before I put Shiv's gear in, and it made quite a difference.

If we want to compare something let's look at % hp and torqe gains comparing similiar mods. If someone can show me the before and after numbers of a USDM Evo with only engine management and boost controller mods with a turbo or down-pipe back exhaust all taken on the same car in similar weather with similar tempratures on the same track or dyno using the same gas, etc. then I'd feel that there is something to compare.

Oh, you'd have to be willing to put up data for at least 3 or 4 each of the before and after runs - three runs are usually just enough to show a rough baseline; at least if the driver is consistant and uses the same techniques for each run. If you change any of that, the data loses meaning again.

To be honest, I'm not expecing this to be answered with hard data; I am interested in seeing the excuses, though.

 

What it really all boils down to is cost, though. The parts that Vishnu uses are a lot more expensive than the parts that other dealers use.

Vishnu Stage 0:
Cat-back
XEDE
Total: $1695

Equivalent (not including timing control) Buschur Parts:
cat-back: $450
AFC: $340
Boost control: $50
Total: $840

That is less than half the cost of the equivalent Vishnu mods. So you can either save the money, or you can add mods to the Buschur setup bring the total cost up to that of the Vishnu setup. Perhaps add a downpipe and other intake components or a set of cams, etc...

 

Im glad you shot yourself with this what about the amazing quality of the Vishnu exhaust? Not see the race clamps and superior build?? I know first hand I have the Buschur TB a friend has a Vishnu No comparison I am embarresed.

Weres your timing control with that universal SAFC? Not needed huh? Hows the drivability and safety with that MBC? How bout that big universal "please deny my warrenty" SACF that you hardwired in? Please the welfare mods arent for everyone why did you care so much that we want the best and not some McGyver approach??

 

Yes I saw that option to buy Buscher's exhaust with food stamps on his this secure web site that’s protected by gerbils with **** pellets for ammo out of mini low quality Buscher Potato guns similar to production EVO turbo backs. Last I heard the security is down because handle broke off from the mini- Potato/**** Pellet Gun because of poor weld quality. Go Figure?

 

So your making fun of my exhaust too? Man this things giving me an inferiority complex

 

No man, not at all. hell I have the B&B because I could not swing the vishnu's price tag my self. But I'm really want one now.

Eric

 

Sorry, I don't give a crap. I haven't seen my exhaust since I was last under the car. Know what? It was dirty, and all of my 3" 3-bolt flanges were still sealed.

How often do your friends end up under your car looking at the "race clamps?" Do you use Pledge(tm) to shine your exhaust?

I, as well as tons of other people, including Buschur, have used an AFC without timing control. So long as you don't adjust the sucker too much (and you can't with stock injectors anyway), the ECU does a good job at keeping the timing at a safe level.

And like I said before, yeah, piggybacks suck. Basically, you end up changing one parameter, and there are 20 other unintended consequences. Some you can fix, some you can't. With an XEDE or an AFC, when you trim the MAF frequency, you can end up in a higher or lower load cell than you should really be in. So it is really hard to get everything to line up. You trim the frequency in one load cell, which places you in a different one (with a different injector duty cycle). If every map in the ECU were flat, an XEDE or AFC would work great. But that isn't the way it is.

For example, when you change the timing advance with the XEDE, you also indirectly change the injector firing time by the number of degrees that you add or subtract from the advance. And the XEDE won't let you fix that. It is just one more unintended consequence of a piggyback.

When I change timing, I like to change only timing. When I change injector duty cycle, I ONLY want to change IDC. But that isn't going to happen with a piggyback.

My warranty was never denied when I took my car in for service with an AFC in the glovebox. If you want, you can remove it from the car completely. They won't look at the ECU unless they have a reason to. And if you screw up the engine with your tuning, then you deserve to have to pay for it, anyway. If Shiv screws up your engine because he tuned it badly, then he won't pay for it, either, since you signed a waiver that keeps him from being responsible.

If you really want it to be a stealthy install, then get a field harness, or build your own from a junkyard Mitsubishi. Lots of Mitsubishis use the same connectors at the ECU.