Wheel hp (to) Crank hp Translation?
Nov 7, 2003, 10:24 AM
#16
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I have seen consistant 12.5s with drop in filter on the crappy stock Goodyear F1s. And this is on a fairly slippery track.... that car is scary fast in a straight line.
Originally posted by UFO
Friend of mine ran 11.9 in his with just BFG DRs and a K&N. Ran low 12s stock. I think he runs 11.4s now.
Friend of mine ran 11.9 in his with just BFG DRs and a K&N. Ran low 12s stock. I think he runs 11.4s now.
Nov 7, 2003, 10:27 AM
#17
Originally posted by trigeek37
I have seen consistant 12.5s with drop in filter on the crappy stock Goodyear F1s. And this is on a fairly slippery track.... that car is scary fast in a straight line.
I have seen consistant 12.5s with drop in filter on the crappy stock Goodyear F1s. And this is on a fairly slippery track.... that car is scary fast in a straight line.
Nov 7, 2003, 11:16 AM
#19
Originally posted by 4-BNGR
...next step up from the "stock" Evo
Would you rather have the ZO6 or ZR1? I think I'd rather have the ZR1...
...next step up from the "stock" Evo
Would you rather have the ZO6 or ZR1? I think I'd rather have the ZR1...
Nov 7, 2003, 11:20 AM
#20
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I'd rather have a Z06 over the ZR1. The z06 is truly a badass. I work at a chevy store and have driven them both. True, the z06 doesnt have an exotic 32 valve dohc v8 but, it makes more power and is a lot lighter. plus, you could drive it evryday and be comfy while you do it. Ever try to get out of a C4 vette? It PLAIN OUT SUCKS!!!!
Nov 7, 2003, 12:57 PM
#22
Originally posted by MP5
Its also scary fast in the corners- Its truly the next step up from the EVO
Its also scary fast in the corners- Its truly the next step up from the EVO
Nov 7, 2003, 01:31 PM
#23
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Originally posted by UFO
I've never really gone for the percentage theory, and there are some tuners who agree with me too. For example, let's say we take a 100 HP car with 15% loss, and it loses 15 WHP. Now, if we take the same car and do things that are nigh on impossible to do (but for the sake of this argument we'll do them anyway) and up that horsepower to 1,000 HP at the crank then, using the percentage formula, we would now lose 150 WHP as opposed to 15 WHP. In the real world it doesn't work like that.
<snip>
I've never really gone for the percentage theory, and there are some tuners who agree with me too. For example, let's say we take a 100 HP car with 15% loss, and it loses 15 WHP. Now, if we take the same car and do things that are nigh on impossible to do (but for the sake of this argument we'll do them anyway) and up that horsepower to 1,000 HP at the crank then, using the percentage formula, we would now lose 150 WHP as opposed to 15 WHP. In the real world it doesn't work like that.
<snip>
The equation for friction is:
F <= uW where F is the force on the object, u (not correct symbol) is the coefficient of adhesion (and depends on the compound, temperature, humidity, phase of the moon, etc.), and W is the weight or load.
When you increase the Force (more HP or Torque) you get an increase in the coeffecient of adhesion (friction) - its a subset of Newtons laws.
You can test this yourself in the garage with a book. Put it on the floor and push it sideways. Now increase the amount of force pushing down on the book (1G) by having someone push down on the top of it. It will take more effort to push the book across the floor because the change in the load applied to the book. The same thing happen in the engine and transmission - the level of friction goes up in proportion with the load applied.
Basic physics - commonly refered to as - Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction.
Remember - Physics: its not just a good Idea - its the law.
Some light reading:
http://physics.bu.edu/py105/notes/Friction.html
Nov 7, 2003, 01:39 PM
#24
A little simplistic dont you think? Homework (for the rest of your life 
) Calculate the idifference in driveline loss (loss from the crank to the ground) of an EVO that went from 227- 300WHP as measured by a dynopack.
) Calculate the idifference in driveline loss (loss from the crank to the ground) of an EVO that went from 227- 300WHP as measured by a dynopack.
Originally posted by seattle944t
Ah, but the real world DOES work like that. There is this thing called "Physics" that can calculate friction, this being the largest part of drivetrain losses.
The equation for friction is:
F <= uW where F is the force on the object, u (not correct symbol) is the coefficient of adhesion (and depends on the compound, temperature, humidity, phase of the moon, etc.), and W is the weight or load.
When you increase the Force (more HP or Torque) you get an increase in the coeffecient of adhesion (friction) - its a subset of Newtons laws.
You can test this yourself in the garage with a book. Put it on the floor and push it sideways. Now increase the amount of force pushing down on the book (1G) by having someone push down on the top of it. It will take more effort to push the book across the floor because the change in the load applied to the book. The same thing happen in the engine and transmission - the level of friction goes up in proportion with the load applied.
Basic physics - commonly refered to as - Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction.
Remember - Physics: its not just a good Idea - its the law.
Some light reading:
http://physics.bu.edu/py105/notes/Friction.html
Ah, but the real world DOES work like that. There is this thing called "Physics" that can calculate friction, this being the largest part of drivetrain losses.
The equation for friction is:
F <= uW where F is the force on the object, u (not correct symbol) is the coefficient of adhesion (and depends on the compound, temperature, humidity, phase of the moon, etc.), and W is the weight or load.
When you increase the Force (more HP or Torque) you get an increase in the coeffecient of adhesion (friction) - its a subset of Newtons laws.
You can test this yourself in the garage with a book. Put it on the floor and push it sideways. Now increase the amount of force pushing down on the book (1G) by having someone push down on the top of it. It will take more effort to push the book across the floor because the change in the load applied to the book. The same thing happen in the engine and transmission - the level of friction goes up in proportion with the load applied.
Basic physics - commonly refered to as - Every action will have an equal and opposite reaction.
Remember - Physics: its not just a good Idea - its the law.
Some light reading:
http://physics.bu.edu/py105/notes/Friction.html
Nov 7, 2003, 02:33 PM
#26
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something you are forgetting is that the properties of lubricants(like the viscosity) change with shear rate so your friction argument isn't quite as simplistic as you make it seem.
Nov 8, 2003, 11:03 AM
#27
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iT IS WEIRD when trying to calcualte drivetrain loss.
Think about thise.
The rule of thumb is 15% powerloss, which is believable for a AWD car. SO if you make 300CRank HP of 255 WHP.
The STOCK evo is rated at what 271? But a HEALTHY evo puts down 230whp, SO the crank is at 264.
But lets pretend you make 500Crank HP, are you really gona loose 75 WHP on a transmission that only takes about 30WHP? I do not think that as your power goes up, the power the tranny saps goes up with it, I believe it is static, so the more power you make, the less % loss there is respectively, with all being equal.
Think about it, lose 30WHP stock, then lose more then double that down the line, naw, the tranny didn't somehow double in weight or resistance, it constantly saps the same amount of power.
The only true way is to run the engine ALON through a HP measuring device, then hook it up to a tranny and measure again.
Think about thise.
The rule of thumb is 15% powerloss, which is believable for a AWD car. SO if you make 300CRank HP of 255 WHP.
The STOCK evo is rated at what 271? But a HEALTHY evo puts down 230whp, SO the crank is at 264.
But lets pretend you make 500Crank HP, are you really gona loose 75 WHP on a transmission that only takes about 30WHP? I do not think that as your power goes up, the power the tranny saps goes up with it, I believe it is static, so the more power you make, the less % loss there is respectively, with all being equal.
Think about it, lose 30WHP stock, then lose more then double that down the line, naw, the tranny didn't somehow double in weight or resistance, it constantly saps the same amount of power.
The only true way is to run the engine ALON through a HP measuring device, then hook it up to a tranny and measure again.
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