Drivability?
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Drivability?
I test drove a new Evo and a STI today. I stopped on my way to a Subaru dealer which had offered me a test drive the day before. I wanted to take a second look at the EVO even knowing that the dealer did not offer test drives.
After saying that I was on my way to test drive the STI, they moved several cars to get the EVO out of the showroom for me to have a testdrive. Unfortunately, the sales manager came with me and told me not to rev beyond 3k rpm.
My immediate impressions were that the steering was quick and the suspension was nicely firm with good turn-in response. We got on I-405 north and went to a offramp that you can stay on for endless loops of skidpad testing.
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
After returning and going thru a purchase offer ($1500 over invoice but not quite enough on my trade), I went to the Subaru dealer and got a test drive by myself in a STI.
What a difference. The Subaru had some torque but really didn't seem that quick I just got on the freeway and took an offramp and onramp. The steering felt vague and odd. Even light amouts of throttle during turn-in caused the front end of the car to move outward. It felt very disconcerting.
I have a supercharged M3 for sale which I have set up for track use and drive occasionally in canyon-type drives. I'm used to a RWD car that turns in and rotates under trail braking and/or throttle.
My experience with the STI felt really strange - any throttle input added a motion to the front of the car toward the outside of the turn. It wasn't really understeer or push - just a weird movement of the nose outward and then inward when I lifted.
Here's my question. Is this what I should expect with the EVO too? Is this just a characteristic of AWD? Since I only could rev to 3K, I really couldn't try anything with the throttle.
Speaking of throttle. My M3 weighs about the same as an EVO and puts out 307 whp at 6700rpm and 260 wtq at 4000. I've really enjoyed its drivability and have been able to keep up quite nicely with a Modena and 993 Turbo in canyon driving. Is it possible to tune an EVO for 300+whp and still have a decent power and torque band?
Thanks for listening to my ramblings - it's late.
After saying that I was on my way to test drive the STI, they moved several cars to get the EVO out of the showroom for me to have a testdrive. Unfortunately, the sales manager came with me and told me not to rev beyond 3k rpm.
My immediate impressions were that the steering was quick and the suspension was nicely firm with good turn-in response. We got on I-405 north and went to a offramp that you can stay on for endless loops of skidpad testing.
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
After returning and going thru a purchase offer ($1500 over invoice but not quite enough on my trade), I went to the Subaru dealer and got a test drive by myself in a STI.
What a difference. The Subaru had some torque but really didn't seem that quick I just got on the freeway and took an offramp and onramp. The steering felt vague and odd. Even light amouts of throttle during turn-in caused the front end of the car to move outward. It felt very disconcerting.
I have a supercharged M3 for sale which I have set up for track use and drive occasionally in canyon-type drives. I'm used to a RWD car that turns in and rotates under trail braking and/or throttle.
My experience with the STI felt really strange - any throttle input added a motion to the front of the car toward the outside of the turn. It wasn't really understeer or push - just a weird movement of the nose outward and then inward when I lifted.
Here's my question. Is this what I should expect with the EVO too? Is this just a characteristic of AWD? Since I only could rev to 3K, I really couldn't try anything with the throttle.
Speaking of throttle. My M3 weighs about the same as an EVO and puts out 307 whp at 6700rpm and 260 wtq at 4000. I've really enjoyed its drivability and have been able to keep up quite nicely with a Modena and 993 Turbo in canyon driving. Is it possible to tune an EVO for 300+whp and still have a decent power and torque band?
Thanks for listening to my ramblings - it's late.
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From: Between the Blue and the Sand
Re: Drivability?
Originally posted by XM3
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
I have a supercharged M3 for sale which I have set up for track use and drive occasionally in canyon-type drives. I'm used to a RWD car that turns in and rotates under trail braking and/or throttle.
My experience with the STI felt really strange - any throttle input added a motion to the front of the car toward the outside of the turn. It wasn't really understeer or push - just a weird movement of the nose outward and then inward when I lifted.
Here's my question. Is this what I should expect with the EVO too? Is this just a characteristic of AWD? Since I only could rev to 3K, I really couldn't try anything with the throttle. [/B]
My experience with the STI felt really strange - any throttle input added a motion to the front of the car toward the outside of the turn. It wasn't really understeer or push - just a weird movement of the nose outward and then inward when I lifted.
Here's my question. Is this what I should expect with the EVO too? Is this just a characteristic of AWD? Since I only could rev to 3K, I really couldn't try anything with the throttle. [/B]
For all intents an purposes, the Evo should handle much better than an M3. It just goes about it differently.
Is it possible to tune an EVO for 300+whp and still have a decent power and torque band?
Thanks for listening to my ramblings - it's late. [/B]
Thanks for listening to my ramblings - it's late. [/B]
SC~
300 WHP with exhaust and Xede by Vishnu. Faster than stink and more fun than a 911. Excellent handeling in all conditions. I love this car (I had the STi for 800 miles and sold it).
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Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Central NJ
Re: Drivability?
Originally posted by XM3
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
Adios,
Fusoguy
Re: Drivability?
Originally posted by XM3
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
The car seems to corner pretty flat but starts pushing fairly early. This was in 25mph offramps maybe going 45-50 in 5th gear (just aound 3,000 rpm).
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MaxR - I see you're in Washington. Is that the state or DC? If you're in the Seattle area I'd really like to see your car in action on the track. What club or groups do Evo owners associate with for track events locally?
The offramp for 85th in Kirkland is rated about 25mph. Ive been to driving schools and know about turn in points and apexs' - remember this was an offramp, with the dealer and a 3k rpm max. At steady state on smooth pavement, the car understeers fairly early and the tires start making noise. I think that a little more front neg. camber should dial most of it out. Is this true or do you need a stiffer rear bar or ???
Fusoguy, you're right. I'm sure I must of downshifted for that speed/RPM.
Any other opinions out there on the differences between the Evo and a RWD car on the track would be appreciated.
BTW, here's a link to my car which is for sale.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=148509
Thanks
The offramp for 85th in Kirkland is rated about 25mph. Ive been to driving schools and know about turn in points and apexs' - remember this was an offramp, with the dealer and a 3k rpm max. At steady state on smooth pavement, the car understeers fairly early and the tires start making noise. I think that a little more front neg. camber should dial most of it out. Is this true or do you need a stiffer rear bar or ???
Fusoguy, you're right. I'm sure I must of downshifted for that speed/RPM.
Any other opinions out there on the differences between the Evo and a RWD car on the track would be appreciated.
BTW, here's a link to my car which is for sale.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=148509
Thanks
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From: Between the Blue and the Sand
Originally posted by XM3
the car understeers fairly early and the tires start making noise. I think that a little more front neg. camber should dial most of it out. Is this true or do you need a stiffer rear bar or ???
the car understeers fairly early and the tires start making noise. I think that a little more front neg. camber should dial most of it out. Is this true or do you need a stiffer rear bar or ???
If you do end up getting an Evo, learn to drive it before you start randomly swapping parts to (hopefully) cure a problem that is easily curable by changing your style. One is free. The other costs a lot and wears your tires more quickly.
SC~ who can easily double exit ramp posted speed limits.
Last edited by Secret Chimp; Nov 14, 2003 at 05:58 AM.
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My car is putting out 310 whp with just the Vishnu Stage 1 setup. That was a $2,400 investment. After I add the cams for the Stage 1+ setup, it should increase by another 20 - 30 whp.
You might be able to get a better price. I know people who have paid a couple hundred over invoice recently.
I think you'll be very happy with the handling. Very few cars can match it. Maybe the tires were cold. I haven't experienced any pushing issues.
You might be able to get a better price. I know people who have paid a couple hundred over invoice recently.
I think you'll be very happy with the handling. Very few cars can match it. Maybe the tires were cold. I haven't experienced any pushing issues.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 343
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From: San Diego
I also came from the RWD world after a series of BMWs. It took me 3 AWD cars to finally find one I like. It also took me a while to relearn my habits and learn how to drive AWD....at least better (I'm more in control and can get the car to rotate, etc) than when I started.
AWD will feel like it pushes until you learn. Slow in, Fast out. There's nothing quite like rolling on throttle very hard at apex or a tad after and having the Evo just dig in a pull you through...with NO understeer. The EVO responds beautifully to throttle input....but you gotta be in a better gear. You had no torque to aid cornering at 3k rpm in 5th...or even 4th.
Try just drifting through a corner (sanely) to see how the chassis is set up without throttle at all. Then do something that most cars puke on...apply brakes in mid apex or try and get the car to do something funky with weight transfer via braking....to me it's amazingly stable. Not saying WT wont happen but the car doesnt pull any funny stuff with the tail and steering input while braking. IMO this is the safest car to have fun with on public roads, it's very forgiving.
Overall, you did not get a good impression of the handling while staying below 3k rpm.
AWD will feel like it pushes until you learn. Slow in, Fast out. There's nothing quite like rolling on throttle very hard at apex or a tad after and having the Evo just dig in a pull you through...with NO understeer. The EVO responds beautifully to throttle input....but you gotta be in a better gear. You had no torque to aid cornering at 3k rpm in 5th...or even 4th.
Try just drifting through a corner (sanely) to see how the chassis is set up without throttle at all. Then do something that most cars puke on...apply brakes in mid apex or try and get the car to do something funky with weight transfer via braking....to me it's amazingly stable. Not saying WT wont happen but the car doesnt pull any funny stuff with the tail and steering input while braking. IMO this is the safest car to have fun with on public roads, it's very forgiving.
Overall, you did not get a good impression of the handling while staying below 3k rpm.
Originally posted by XM3
MaxR - I see you're in Washington. Is that the state or DC? If you're in the Seattle area I'd really like to see your car in action on the track. What club or groups do Evo owners associate with for track events locally?
The offramp for 85th in Kirkland is rated about 25mph. Ive been to driving schools and know about turn in points and apexs' - remember this was an offramp, with the dealer and a 3k rpm max. At steady state on smooth pavement, the car understeers fairly early and the tires start making noise. I think that a little more front neg. camber should dial most of it out. Is this true or do you need a stiffer rear bar or ???
Fusoguy, you're right. I'm sure I must of downshifted for that speed/RPM.
Any other opinions out there on the differences between the Evo and a RWD car on the track would be appreciated.
BTW, here's a link to my car which is for sale.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=148509
Thanks
MaxR - I see you're in Washington. Is that the state or DC? If you're in the Seattle area I'd really like to see your car in action on the track. What club or groups do Evo owners associate with for track events locally?
The offramp for 85th in Kirkland is rated about 25mph. Ive been to driving schools and know about turn in points and apexs' - remember this was an offramp, with the dealer and a 3k rpm max. At steady state on smooth pavement, the car understeers fairly early and the tires start making noise. I think that a little more front neg. camber should dial most of it out. Is this true or do you need a stiffer rear bar or ???
Fusoguy, you're right. I'm sure I must of downshifted for that speed/RPM.
Any other opinions out there on the differences between the Evo and a RWD car on the track would be appreciated.
BTW, here's a link to my car which is for sale.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...hreadid=148509
Thanks
