Broken FP RED [MERGED]
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 168
Likes: 2
From: Miami
It's a shame that people don't realize that turbos are parts that wear out -- the harder you (ab)use them, the more likely that they will eventually need a rebuild. Eighteen months of use shows that the turbo was not defective, or it would have failed long ago.
There are also many other components in your system that affect a turbo's longevity, including, most importantly, the oiling system. Everyone knows that the stock oiling (from the head setup) can be inadequate on an upgraded journal bearing turbo. Were you using the stock oil feed location, or feeding oil from the filter with the FP upgraded oil line?
Diid you ask FP to rebuild your Black, or just sell you the parts?
Frankly, it sounds like you just got on here to ***** about FP, seeing as you're already planning to have another local shop try to "fix it" and then telling us you're going to post up more about it. FP warranty service is the best around. They bend over backwards to help their customers who are out of warranty as well. I expect that if you treat them right, you'll find people are more likely to go the extra mile for you. Doesn't sound like that's the approach you're planning to take. I hope you get what you deserve.
There are also many other components in your system that affect a turbo's longevity, including, most importantly, the oiling system. Everyone knows that the stock oiling (from the head setup) can be inadequate on an upgraded journal bearing turbo. Were you using the stock oil feed location, or feeding oil from the filter with the FP upgraded oil line?
Diid you ask FP to rebuild your Black, or just sell you the parts?
Frankly, it sounds like you just got on here to ***** about FP, seeing as you're already planning to have another local shop try to "fix it" and then telling us you're going to post up more about it. FP warranty service is the best around. They bend over backwards to help their customers who are out of warranty as well. I expect that if you treat them right, you'll find people are more likely to go the extra mile for you. Doesn't sound like that's the approach you're planning to take. I hope you get what you deserve.
Good news is they still are repairing for old customers for those who wanted to know.
N2oiroc, that's inaccurate, on many levels. The 35R you reference is a ball bearing, right? The FP Black that the OP is talking about is not, as you well know. They are different -- "it's just physics".
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...robert-fp.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...robert-fp.html
N2oiroc, that's inaccurate, on many levels. The 35R you reference is a ball bearing, right? The FP Black that the OP is talking about is not, as you well know. They are different -- "it's just physics".
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...robert-fp.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...robert-fp.html
most oem turbos are journal bearing and last well over 100k miles. thats because they are running within a safe margain. an fp red or black, even at just 25 psi, isnt.
for the most part, a turbo should last the life of the engine. on my sti i had a 35r on there for a long time and it never gave me any trouble. and i beat the **** out of my cars. they see redline at least 10 times a day. fp turbos wear out and fail because they toss huge wheels on tiny hydrodynamic bearings that were meant for wheels 1/2 the size. nothing against fp, its just physics.
Last edited by OneCrzyEvo21; Nov 16, 2011 at 08:25 AM.
Again, inaccurate. Most stock turbos last longer because they are part of a system that has not been modified. The stock Evo 275 HP puts dramatically lower demands on a turbo than 500 HP. That is true in terms of turbo wheel speed, heat, cycling, higher than stock limits RPM, and the list goes on. The failure rates for journal bearings are strongly associated with the kind of use to which the modified cars are put. Road racing and high "g" load cornering, which sloshes the oil away from the pickup, will kill a journal bearing turbo very quickly. As long as you keep a FP Black, Red, or Green properly lubricated, it works fine. If you don't, a rebuild will be in order. This is elementary turbo performance knowledge.
Actually, that's inaccurate as well. The vast majority of FP journal bearing Reds, Blacks and Greens last just fine and eventually wear out, just like other high performance substitutions for stock parts. That assumes, of course, that they are fed the appropriate amount of oil under the proper pressure. When that doesn't happen, it does not matter who made the turbo, because lack of oil will kill it without regard to who made it.
Again, inaccurate. Most stock turbos last longer because they are part of a system that has not been modified. The stock Evo 275 HP puts dramatically lower demands on a turbo than 500 HP. That is true in terms of turbo wheel speed, heat, cycling, higher than stock limits RPM, and the list goes on. The failure rates for journal bearings are strongly associated with the kind of use to which the modified cars are put. Road racing and high "g" load cornering, which sloshes the oil away from the pickup, will kill a journal bearing turbo very quickly. As long as you keep a FP Black, Red, or Green properly lubricated, it works fine. If you don't, a rebuild will be in order. This is elementary turbo performance knowledge.
Again, inaccurate. Most stock turbos last longer because they are part of a system that has not been modified. The stock Evo 275 HP puts dramatically lower demands on a turbo than 500 HP. That is true in terms of turbo wheel speed, heat, cycling, higher than stock limits RPM, and the list goes on. The failure rates for journal bearings are strongly associated with the kind of use to which the modified cars are put. Road racing and high "g" load cornering, which sloshes the oil away from the pickup, will kill a journal bearing turbo very quickly. As long as you keep a FP Black, Red, or Green properly lubricated, it works fine. If you don't, a rebuild will be in order. This is elementary turbo performance knowledge.
Yep, that's what he assumes, but the data does not show that. Journal bearing turbos live or die on oil film pressure. Not enough oil pressure, or too high a turbo wheel speed are the culprits, not "too little bearings"... That's true for all stock based performance turbos. FP just sells by far the most of them. FP measured the stock feed oil pressure as marginal for a stock turbo, and designed and developed the filter housing feed oil line to provide better oiling pressure to the turbo.
Evolved Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,387
Likes: 3
From: riverside, ca
The bearings them selves dont go back except for excessive heat lack of oil pressure, or not enough additives in the oil to keep the journal bearings from cooking. What oil were u using. Me ive had my og 64mm red on for 35k seeing 25-27 psi on pump daily. Ive been running the Valvoline vr1 20w50 because it falls in there guidelines for phosphorous n zinc content which is what keeps these turbo bearings happy. Sucks to hear about you blowing yours. Which fp red do you have 64 or 80mm?? Id say put it on a credit card, get yours converted to BB like someone said earlier, and enjoy almost stock spool up. Once mine craps out down the road itll either be a rebuilt 80mm for mine, or ill go fp black. And yea they put big wheels on these, but they designed them to be almost oem replacement length if you can stay within the efficiency range and right oil used. IF you dont do either, its like going sprinting with shoes that have holes in them, how long before you get a blister on your foot....?? same kinda principle. Good luck op.
My FP Red lasted about 50k. It was not treated gently. This was before the upgraded oil line or oils list. Hell the only time I upgraded oil lines was to the first replacement with out a filter still from the cyl head.
The turbo was working great. I Yves it a little gas to pass someone and boom. I had no smoke or signs that it was going out before the turbo grenaded. Fp informed me that the only reusable parts were the compressor cover and wastegate actuator. It gutted my turbine housing.
Needless to say the price to rebuild my turbo vs buy a new one at that point was almost the same.
The turbo was working great. I Yves it a little gas to pass someone and boom. I had no smoke or signs that it was going out before the turbo grenaded. Fp informed me that the only reusable parts were the compressor cover and wastegate actuator. It gutted my turbine housing.
Needless to say the price to rebuild my turbo vs buy a new one at that point was almost the same.
Evolved Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,387
Likes: 3
From: riverside, ca
that blows man, yea i know what u mean mine was installed prior to oil feed line and oil list, after the oil list i just followed it on there. Damn it sent a ****load of shrapnel into the hotside...? That sucks, hey i guess the term is once you go black you dont go back. Put a black on there with a new feed line....good luck man.
Lol I thought about going to a black but just bought a used shearer kit and a HTA 3582. Ended up spending about 2800.
I made a thread a while back when it happened. It almost totally made its self single scroll.
I made a thread a while back when it happened. It almost totally made its self single scroll.
Last edited by mt057; Nov 16, 2011 at 03:14 PM.
Yep, that's what he assumes, but the data does not show that. Journal bearing turbos live or die on oil film pressure. Not enough oil pressure, or too high a turbo wheel speed are the culprits, not "too little bearings"... That's true for all stock based performance turbos. FP just sells by far the most of them. FP measured the stock feed oil pressure as marginal for a stock turbo, and designed and developed the filter housing feed oil line to provide better oiling pressure to the turbo.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 168
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Does my FP Red hotside and cold side have any value?
Does it have any value or am I better off selling it for metals.
MY FP Red died on me and I need the whole center section most likely but dont want to spend that type of money.
Is it worth anything? I can try to repair it or hold on to it....send it in when I have 900 bucks to repair it.
MY FP Red died on me and I need the whole center section most likely but dont want to spend that type of money.
Is it worth anything? I can try to repair it or hold on to it....send it in when I have 900 bucks to repair it.