Hey guys, been trolling around the forums for a while now and couldn’t think of where I should put this. So modds feel free to move if necessary. I have a 05 electric blue evo 8. I’ve had it since 2010 and loved every minute of it...kinda. I can most definitely say it’s got a hell of a personality like no other car I’ve owned. I’ve put 50k on it personally since I’ve owned it, I bought it with 65k on it. I beat the bag outa it on a daily basis, they really can take a pounding. I'm one for routine maintenance, I like to think it’s me staying on top of things and not horrible OCD in fear of if I don’t that’ll Ill have massive mechanical failure at the worst possible time. But anyways, my exedy twin finally gave up the good fight after 28k of beatin (thought that’s pretty good) so it was time for a rebuild. Along with being pretty picky on maintenance, I’m also a fan of research, because no one likes to sound like a chooch when they ask a question on the internet. So I like to think I’m not to out of line in what I’m going to ask everyone’s opinion on. Here we go...

1.) Since the last time I replaced my clutch on jack stands in my shop, I promised myself I'd never do that sh*t again. So I decided to yank the whole shabang and work on it on a stand with ease. As far as the rebuild itself goes it seems like guys have had it be hit or miss. Between people finding they have some lockout issues post rebuild or that it just didn’t last like it did out of the box. Now me being the original owner and knowing how I drive I think it'd be safe to say if I went ahead and got both friction disks new, a new OEM throw out, an act monolock and either if not both of the steels replaced if they happen to not be straight or no longer within spec that it should function just as good as a new out of the box unit should no? Assuming everything cleaned, polished and torqued to spec. The trans is an ultimate ratio setup built by Shep, I have a stainless clutch slave line and the pill taken out for what that's worth to any deciding factors. Main question here being, is it worth the rebuild or do I just buy another new one and avoid the horror stories?

2.) About 6 months into owning the car, and me being 19... I may have smacked it into a rock wall in a bit of a whiskey throttle situation. When you mash the go button, they sure do go . The aftermath wasn’t to bad, tore up the front bumper (war wounds, who cares). Bent the driver’s side control arm like a pretzel, and took a gnarly chunk out of the rim. Sub frame, strut and other components took no damage. Back to my point here, I gave the ACD pump a love tap. At the time, I honestly didn’t know what entirely the unit did, all I knew was I effed something up because all 3 green lights came on at once. Luckily I was less than a mile from home and limped it back. Upon further investigation I saw one of the wires going into the lower plug got cut. Soldered it back together and boom problem solved back to one light, thinking nothing else of it until recently after hours of research on the pretty impressive system we got going on there. I did the test in the car to listen for the pump to kick and how if sounds if it builds pressure or has the same noise throughout. Mine maintains the same RPM of the pump the whole time it runs till it kicks off, making me think the hydraulic portion of the pump is smoked and probably hasn’t worked the entire time I’ve owned it. (Basing this off looking at heavy corrosion around the seams being a New England car). What’s bugging me though is I did the test a few times, and sometimes the motor wont kick on at all? I’d say it’s 3 to 1 that it will kick then I’ll have a dud test. Now I’ve found the rebuild kit for the hydraulic portion of the pump so check that off, but what about the electric motor itself? It doesn’t seem to be available anywhere? So am I screwed and need the entire pump or is there some form of relay for the electric motor itself that could be bad?

3.) Since the motor and trans is already out and being a new england car I’d like to take the opportunity to sand blast and epoxy prime the bay and the strut towers. Leaving me with the big decision of do I take my ABS pump and all my lines and everything out and go for it? Or am I setting myself up for a hell ride of trying to get it bled out again after I’m done? After reading Montu's 12 page thread and a few other guys struggles on here I’m a bit scared to jeopardize my stopping power to fix some rust issues.(Even though I really can’t stand the rust) I have Stoptech stainless lines, all new brembo rotors and hawk pads and it stops mint and has an excellent pedal. Is it worth possible months if hell and gallons of fluid? Can someone say for sure that either ill need the scan tool to properly bleed it or if in fact it can be done without?

4.) With it all being apart I was planning on replacing some stuff here and there that would seem foolish to not do at this point. My list being..... White line everything sway bar, control arms and rack bushings. The knock sensors in the back on the block. My oil pan and pump mainly because it’s all rotted and drips. Do a military spec connector to make my harness quick disconnect because somehow I see it coming out again in the not too distant future. Was going to put a few tack welds on the sub frame studs to prevent the cage nut spin. Delete the ac and make a cover for the ports in the firewall. Get a new oil cooler and plumb with AN lines and fittings. New valve cover gasket. And lastly replace the front core support because it’s all mangled from the original owner and I don’t like knowing it’s all butched under there. Now my question to you being, what else do I do while I’m already in there within reason. I’m not looking for get a big turbo or make it a 2.4 stroker....but what else would make sense to do with everything all apart so I can put it back together and be like damn it feels solid?


Sorry for the small Novel. Any input from you guys would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

1a.) In theory, yes. But as you well know... clutches are strange in these cars, and the install is of the utmost importance. If I were in your shoes, and spent the money on a setup with replaceable wear parts, you better believe that I'll be replacing the wear parts and expecting it to work as advertised. Otherwise... what's the point? That said... see what I stated just before that HA!

2a.) With this one, I'm more cautious.
1. The ACD pump shouldn't run "every time" it should go through a startup check though. For example... the last time I bled mine after doing my clutch, the first key turn, and the pump ran for a few seconds. The second time, not nearly as long, maybe 2 seconds? Each time after that was extremely short... but it should be proportional to the amount of fluid it needs to move. Also, my pump RPMs seemed to be constant during bleeding. I'll be honest though, I'm not an expert on the internals of these aside from the basics of it being an electro-hydraulic pump.

2. Consider that soldering isn't necessarily the best solution for a high performance car because of how brittle it can be.

Wish I had more to offer here...

3a.) I haven't seen that post about the brakes... but I'll have to look into it sometime. Realistically, it's just a hydraulic system, and it should be able to be bled. That said, I haven't bled my brakes yet (just coming up on the first interval for that)... but I use a vacuum bleed system. WORST case... if a special system is needed, you can take it to the dealer to have them bleed for you?

4a.) Consider more than just tack welds on those nuts. Mine were not pre-welded, and ceased (of course). I cut it open on car, and very solidly welded it through the small hole. I was able to snap the welds however. I attribute this to A. stick welding in a confined space (though I got great penetration) which ultimately gunked up the surface with missed arc starts, and B. Not being able to prep the surface, including those missed arc starts which probably contaminated the welds. I have a brand new setup, as well as my old setup, and both will be handled properly off the car via TIG.

 

1b.) You would figure that if you bought a clutch that’s rebuild able, rebuilds shouldn’t be an issue. Pretty agreeable. My disks are toast for sure but the steels seem useable. The springs that are riveted to them have a few of the fingers snapped off. I can’t see how I’d go about re-riveting new ones on so I’m assuming ill need the new steels to. Nothing had any discoloration from excessive heat and everything is very uniformly worn. So, I guess I’m going to go ahead and try a rebuild with all new wear parts and resurface the flywheel. After a new throw out and the monolock ill be into it for about 1000, yes for a few hundo more I could get a new one. But a few hundred could go towards something else so I shouldn’t have to feel guilty rebuilding it damnit!


2b.) I suppose I never thought about once it builds pressure the accumulator holds it so it clearly wouldn’t have to run as long if cycled repeatedly. But like I said, every few times I got nothing out of it at all. Regardless of the pressure already built the cycling of the key being on and power being sent to the pump should kick it on every time at least for a second or two no? I guess I could bench test it a few times and see if I get any hiccups from it. If not the hydro portion of the rebuild should be sufficient.


3b.) It is just a hydraulic system and like anything else you’d assume if you go about it correctly it should bleed out as designed to with minimal struggle. After reading through some of the posts again, it seems the problems that guys were having may have not been air locked in the abs pumps themselves but more related to mistakes or inconsistencies with parts through the struggle of trying to fix the issue of bleeding. That being said I think I’ll go for it and break it all down for blasting. If the abs pump was relocated to the trunk of the car, would the amount of fluid needing to be moved for the system to function properly be any different if the lines were different lengths? The two running from the master would be full length of the car to the pump itself, then the two lines running back to the front would be longer then what it is currently set up as. Any adverse effects to come from this?


4b.) As far as the studs go, I figured TIG ¼ of the way around the stud on each side of it should be enough. Going all the way around seems overkill, this way if I have to cut it free for some odd reason it won’t be too hard to. I decided to do a bunch of other gaskets and little stuff to, only other question being is it actually worth messing around porting the stock exhaust manifold or better to leave it alone and sack up for a real one when the time comes?

 

Just because it seems like you don't seem to mind spending a few extra dollars if its better for you car, when bleeding the brakes don't use a vacuum bleeder, I've tried um a few times and they seem to introduce more air to my braking system than it takes out. That has been the case on a few vehicles I've tried them on to include my evo, So I finally went out and spent the extra money on a motiv pressure bleeder. Greatest investment I could have made, not only does it get all the air out of the system but since its pushing not pulling the fluid any check valves or what not are opened during bleeding so you don't have to run the car or press pedals, just open bleeders till you get clean fluid and close. Idk if it was just me or if their design is a little bit off but I got the adapter that is supposed to fit our reservoir, but it didn't. That was easily fixed by just cutting the 3 "shelves" inside the adapter off and then just using 2 rubber clamps to hold it on, just make sure that you clamp it down to reservoir not the metal proportioning valves so that you're not putting too much pressure on the seals for the reservoir to valve area. And get a impact wrench (I have a snapon battery one, and its great for everywhere and no need for an airline) I've dropped my subframe twice now and haven't had to worry about the studs spinning because the initial torque of the gun just zips the nuts right up and then you can do final torqueing with a torque wrench. And as for the clutch in theory it should work just as new since the parts are manufactured the same company. But we'll both find out as I picked up a cusco twin (basically exedy twin hd with blue cover not purple) and I'm planning to rebuild it. $1000 is a lot better than $1800 in my opinion.

 

Regarding the brake line lengthening. On one hand, I want to say yes, because there's more fluid to absorb the pulse, though it's designed not to do that. But on the other hand, force is simply pressure times area, so I can't see it being a problem unless the fluid actually DOES absorb shock? This is out of my scope of practice right this moment though.

Regarding porting. The ported stock exhaust manifold is pretty much the best option available for performance without going full tubular. Going tubular also doesn't actually add MUCH more HP, but they sure look better.

Not all tubular exhaust manifolds are created equally though, so keep a heads up there.

 

Being that brake fluid isn’t compressible, or easily compressed under any normal braking application. You would think that if it was bled properly it wouldn’t matter if it was a foot long or ten feet long because there’s no where for the pulse force to be absorbed. So the pulse at the pump end should be a direct representation of the other end of the line. Maybe I’m thinking of it wrong but that would seem to make sense to me. So line lengthening shouldn’t be an issue... I think.

As far as the mani goes, it seems leaving it be is the route ill be taking. Just making sure good new gaskets go on everything. I have a hard time believing that a 45 dollar OEM gasket is really leaps and bounds better than the ones that stm or fp sells for a fraction of the price. I’m all for going OEM but holy hell that seems ridiculous.

 

If you're talking about the oem head-manifold gasket vs the mr gasket copper one DO NOT get the mr gasket one. I thought aftermarket was always better when I first bought the car so I tried out the mr gasket one. It's a dsm gasket so it doesn't fit right which is where I should have stopped and just got an oem one, but I just trimmed the outside bolt holes till the cylinder holes lined up and used it. Well 2 months of having various issues later I finally pulled the manifold off to replace with a ported one and sure enough every single cylinder was leaking. luckily I didn't warp the head. But if your talking the other gaskets in the exhaust system the ones I like the most and have had the least problem with besides oem are the grimmspeed ones. But mainly just warning you to steer clear of the mr. gasket copper ones.

 

[QUOTE=macadoo355;11108821]Being that brake fluid isn’t compressible, or easily compressed under any normal braking application. You would think that if it was bled properly it wouldn’t matter if it was a foot long or ten feet long because there’s no where for the pulse force to be absorbed. So the pulse at the pump end should be a direct representation of the other end of the line. Maybe I’m thinking of it wrong but that would seem to make sense to me. So line lengthening shouldn’t be an issue... I think.









You're absolutely right bro. Since hydraulic fluid by nature isn't compressible, you shouldn't receive any pulse shock through the line. And since the master cylinder takes the force applied by the brake pedal stroke and magnifies the pressure to be sent through the lines, given that the fluid is non-compressible, the pressure at the end of the line is the same as the pressure at the beginning of the line. Doesn't matter if the line is one foot, ten feet, or a hundred feet. It will be the same, so long as there isn't any "compressible" element introduced into the system, like air or water.


Interesting write up. I like the ideas you have for the engine bay area mods while you have the engine/trans assy out. Best to do all you can as far as prep and mods while they're out of the way.