Another air bag recall?
May 2, 2018, 11:42 AM
#16
EvoM Community Team Leader
If they are being shady about it and feeding me B.S. I'm gonna let them give me a new ECU. I was thinking though, there really wouldn't be any harm in letting them do it, I would just tell them up front, your gonna do this and then Im going to have to flash it right back as soon as your done otherwise the car wont work. Let the bean counters have this one. They get to mark it as done, collect some money and its a one time deal (hopefully).
May 3, 2018, 04:39 AM
#18
Newbie
Thread Starter
Superbovine, I went back and looked at the original June 2015 recall notice and it says NOTHING about being a temporary stop gap. Also, that original notice talks about a 2 hour job to replace the air bag inflator, just as this new one does. Since I did the original recall, I know they pulled the dash - so I don't see how it will be different this time around. I certainly don't fault Mitsubishi for the first airbag recall - but shame on them for the second one. My worry continues... Also, I called Mitsu customer service, as well as two dealers - none of them could give me the detail on what specifically they have to do and whether the dash has to be pulled.
May 3, 2018, 01:16 PM
#19
EvoM Community Team Leader
Superbovine, I went back and looked at the original June 2015 recall notice and it says NOTHING about being a temporary stop gap. Also, that original notice talks about a 2 hour job to replace the air bag inflator, just as this new one does. Since I did the original recall, I know they pulled the dash - so I don't see how it will be different this time around. I certainly don't fault Mitsubishi for the first airbag recall - but shame on them for the second one. My worry continues... Also, I called Mitsu customer service, as well as two dealers - none of them could give me the detail on what specifically they have to do and whether the dash has to be pulled.
I dunno if anyone has actually done a google image search on takata airbag failure (Or what ever keywords you want) but it is not pretty.
May 3, 2018, 05:15 PM
#21
Yes it is confirmed final fix.
The stop gap was industry wide to who ever was complaining about their letter or whatever.
Manufacturers could either replace with a new temporary replacement, thereby removing any oxidation resetting the clock, so to speak until a permanent replacement could be had, or they could go directly to source an alternate vendor (which takes time to do, contracting, design, sufficient production to launch recall etc), leaving it possible to kill people in the process as Honda initially chose to do lol.
This is why Honda had double recalls on multiple vehicles. This is why Dodge had double recalls on multiple vehicles (triple on certain trucks). I'm sure there are many others, but I focused on what affects me, I don't have a lot of time for everyone elses vehicles.
The repair requires dash removal by design. There is almost zero difference between the two replacements in procedure apart from the second repair also involved adding some foam tape to cut down on rattles (this was also present on first-run 06.5-07 lancer recalls, not affecting evos). By components, the old igniter was the same steel igniter with whatever propellent (it Escapes me at the moment) had the oxidizing issue. The new igniter is a composite unit with no steel so even if something were to happen a decade down the road like this did, the shrapnel is no longer a danger.
HOWEVER, you can change it without complete dash removal... It is NOT approved by mitsubishi, however because Evo owners are very common (especially as the cars are getting older and cheaper to own) to do HORRIBLE interior work it had become a necessity in some cases. From half assed radio installs to total hack job gauge installs. Because of this specifically on evos (and the occasional lancer with crappy audio mods) I'll sometimes pull the dash half way out and do the igniter in the car. This is necessary sometimes as people really like to wrap their extra mile of wiring all around all sorts things, install things with no connectors to unplug for access necessitating cutting of wires to remove components, and any number of other atrocities. Because of this, even though it is MUCH more difficult to do in the car, you pretty much have to.
Keep in mind that to remove the igniter you have to separate (at least partially) the duct work from the dash, which means the dash had to be lifted several inches up. This means that basically the only thing you aren't doing is sliding the dash out of the car. All unbolting etc is all the same. And it's harder to align things properly due to not being able to see several important areas, it's impossible to install the felt nvh pads etc.
Basically if you want it done right, pull the dash.
If you want to complain about having to have the job done twice, complain about takata. It is not Mitsubishis fault. And to the person that took it a step further to complain that it is mitsubishis fault for picking takata.... Keep in mind that ONE ****ING CAR was all mitsubishi used this type of igniter in. Honda affected almost their entire product line for years. Toyota not much better etc. Literally, Mitsubishi used this flawed igniter less than any other manufacturer... You could almost argue less than any other specific car model I would bet, but that's speculative. People need to get off their high damn horses. It's just a car, it isn't special, no one is special, no one will remember any of this by the time your child is your age. It's just life people, you got the least-but-still affected vehicle in the country. Try not to die of anxiety over this.
The stop gap was industry wide to who ever was complaining about their letter or whatever.
Manufacturers could either replace with a new temporary replacement, thereby removing any oxidation resetting the clock, so to speak until a permanent replacement could be had, or they could go directly to source an alternate vendor (which takes time to do, contracting, design, sufficient production to launch recall etc), leaving it possible to kill people in the process as Honda initially chose to do lol.
This is why Honda had double recalls on multiple vehicles. This is why Dodge had double recalls on multiple vehicles (triple on certain trucks). I'm sure there are many others, but I focused on what affects me, I don't have a lot of time for everyone elses vehicles.
The repair requires dash removal by design. There is almost zero difference between the two replacements in procedure apart from the second repair also involved adding some foam tape to cut down on rattles (this was also present on first-run 06.5-07 lancer recalls, not affecting evos). By components, the old igniter was the same steel igniter with whatever propellent (it Escapes me at the moment) had the oxidizing issue. The new igniter is a composite unit with no steel so even if something were to happen a decade down the road like this did, the shrapnel is no longer a danger.
HOWEVER, you can change it without complete dash removal... It is NOT approved by mitsubishi, however because Evo owners are very common (especially as the cars are getting older and cheaper to own) to do HORRIBLE interior work it had become a necessity in some cases. From half assed radio installs to total hack job gauge installs. Because of this specifically on evos (and the occasional lancer with crappy audio mods) I'll sometimes pull the dash half way out and do the igniter in the car. This is necessary sometimes as people really like to wrap their extra mile of wiring all around all sorts things, install things with no connectors to unplug for access necessitating cutting of wires to remove components, and any number of other atrocities. Because of this, even though it is MUCH more difficult to do in the car, you pretty much have to.
Keep in mind that to remove the igniter you have to separate (at least partially) the duct work from the dash, which means the dash had to be lifted several inches up. This means that basically the only thing you aren't doing is sliding the dash out of the car. All unbolting etc is all the same. And it's harder to align things properly due to not being able to see several important areas, it's impossible to install the felt nvh pads etc.
Basically if you want it done right, pull the dash.
If you want to complain about having to have the job done twice, complain about takata. It is not Mitsubishis fault. And to the person that took it a step further to complain that it is mitsubishis fault for picking takata.... Keep in mind that ONE ****ING CAR was all mitsubishi used this type of igniter in. Honda affected almost their entire product line for years. Toyota not much better etc. Literally, Mitsubishi used this flawed igniter less than any other manufacturer... You could almost argue less than any other specific car model I would bet, but that's speculative. People need to get off their high damn horses. It's just a car, it isn't special, no one is special, no one will remember any of this by the time your child is your age. It's just life people, you got the least-but-still affected vehicle in the country. Try not to die of anxiety over this.
Last edited by superbovine; May 3, 2018 at 05:31 PM.
May 3, 2018, 06:37 PM
#22
EvoM Community Team Leader
Yes it is confirmed final fix.
The stop gap was industry wide to who ever was complaining about their letter or whatever.
Manufacturers could either replace with a new temporary replacement, thereby removing any oxidation resetting the clock, so to speak until a permanent replacement could be had, or they could go directly to source an alternate vendor (which takes time to do, contracting, design, sufficient production to launch recall etc), leaving it possible to kill people in the process as Honda initially chose to do lol.
This is why Honda had double recalls on multiple vehicles. This is why Dodge had double recalls on multiple vehicles (triple on certain trucks). I'm sure there are many others, but I focused on what affects me, I don't have a lot of time for everyone elses vehicles.
The repair requires dash removal by design. There is almost zero difference between the two replacements in procedure apart from the second repair also involved adding some foam tape to cut down on rattles (this was also present on first-run 06.5-07 lancer recalls, not affecting evos). By components, the old igniter was the same steel igniter with whatever propellent (it Escapes me at the moment) had the oxidizing issue. The new igniter is a composite unit with no steel so even if something were to happen a decade down the road like this did, the shrapnel is no longer a danger.
HOWEVER, you can change it without complete dash removal... It is NOT approved by mitsubishi, however because Evo owners are very common (especially as the cars are getting older and cheaper to own) to do HORRIBLE interior work it had become a necessity in some cases. From half assed radio installs to total hack job gauge installs. Because of this specifically on evos (and the occasional lancer with crappy audio mods) I'll sometimes pull the dash half way out and do the igniter in the car. This is necessary sometimes as people really like to wrap their extra mile of wiring all around all sorts things, install things with no connectors to unplug for access necessitating cutting of wires to remove components, and any number of other atrocities. Because of this, even though it is MUCH more difficult to do in the car, you pretty much have to.
Keep in mind that to remove the igniter you have to separate (at least partially) the duct work from the dash, which means the dash had to be lifted several inches up. This means that basically the only thing you aren't doing is sliding the dash out of the car. All unbolting etc is all the same. And it's harder to align things properly due to not being able to see several important areas, it's impossible to install the felt nvh pads etc.
Basically if you want it done right, pull the dash.
If you want to complain about having to have the job done twice, complain about takata. It is not Mitsubishis fault. And to the person that took it a step further to complain that it is mitsubishis fault for picking takata.... Keep in mind that ONE ****ING CAR was all mitsubishi used this type of igniter in. Honda affected almost their entire product line for years. Toyota not much better etc. Literally, Mitsubishi used this flawed igniter less than any other manufacturer... You could almost argue less than any other specific car model I would bet, but that's speculative. People need to get off their high damn horses. It's just a car, it isn't special, no one is special, no one will remember any of this by the time your child is your age. It's just life people, you got the least-but-still affected vehicle in the country. Try not to die of anxiety over this.
The stop gap was industry wide to who ever was complaining about their letter or whatever.
Manufacturers could either replace with a new temporary replacement, thereby removing any oxidation resetting the clock, so to speak until a permanent replacement could be had, or they could go directly to source an alternate vendor (which takes time to do, contracting, design, sufficient production to launch recall etc), leaving it possible to kill people in the process as Honda initially chose to do lol.
This is why Honda had double recalls on multiple vehicles. This is why Dodge had double recalls on multiple vehicles (triple on certain trucks). I'm sure there are many others, but I focused on what affects me, I don't have a lot of time for everyone elses vehicles.
The repair requires dash removal by design. There is almost zero difference between the two replacements in procedure apart from the second repair also involved adding some foam tape to cut down on rattles (this was also present on first-run 06.5-07 lancer recalls, not affecting evos). By components, the old igniter was the same steel igniter with whatever propellent (it Escapes me at the moment) had the oxidizing issue. The new igniter is a composite unit with no steel so even if something were to happen a decade down the road like this did, the shrapnel is no longer a danger.
HOWEVER, you can change it without complete dash removal... It is NOT approved by mitsubishi, however because Evo owners are very common (especially as the cars are getting older and cheaper to own) to do HORRIBLE interior work it had become a necessity in some cases. From half assed radio installs to total hack job gauge installs. Because of this specifically on evos (and the occasional lancer with crappy audio mods) I'll sometimes pull the dash half way out and do the igniter in the car. This is necessary sometimes as people really like to wrap their extra mile of wiring all around all sorts things, install things with no connectors to unplug for access necessitating cutting of wires to remove components, and any number of other atrocities. Because of this, even though it is MUCH more difficult to do in the car, you pretty much have to.
Keep in mind that to remove the igniter you have to separate (at least partially) the duct work from the dash, which means the dash had to be lifted several inches up. This means that basically the only thing you aren't doing is sliding the dash out of the car. All unbolting etc is all the same. And it's harder to align things properly due to not being able to see several important areas, it's impossible to install the felt nvh pads etc.
Basically if you want it done right, pull the dash.
If you want to complain about having to have the job done twice, complain about takata. It is not Mitsubishis fault. And to the person that took it a step further to complain that it is mitsubishis fault for picking takata.... Keep in mind that ONE ****ING CAR was all mitsubishi used this type of igniter in. Honda affected almost their entire product line for years. Toyota not much better etc. Literally, Mitsubishi used this flawed igniter less than any other manufacturer... You could almost argue less than any other specific car model I would bet, but that's speculative. People need to get off their high damn horses. It's just a car, it isn't special, no one is special, no one will remember any of this by the time your child is your age. It's just life people, you got the least-but-still affected vehicle in the country. Try not to die of anxiety over this.
The cheating scandal that cost them control of the company is another story though, again not special to mitsubishi, but still.....
Last edited by Biggiesacks; May 3, 2018 at 06:46 PM.
May 4, 2018, 06:58 AM
#23
Oh yeah no doubt, but liability and personal blame are two very different things that some of the kids here can't wrap their head around. If a vehicle is built in good faith and a decade later the manufacturer finds out that one of their vendors made a miscalculation and/or cut a corner that affects the vehicle, that isn't Mitsubishis fault or deserving of blame; if they chose not to correct the issue, then it would be. The liability is on them regardless however. Youngin's are very tunnel-visioned and have problems with critical thinking nowadays.
That kei car scandal was nothing. Check the history on the recall coverups in the 80s and the sex-ring scandal in the 90s. The latter being the one that buried Mitsubishis trajectory, as that is the one where MMJ cut their marketing resources to nil. Had that not happened, and the same volume of money was being funneled into the US market from Japan, who knows where we would be now. Frigging swingers.
Edit: oh ****, and not exactly the same thing, but error in judgment 0-0-0 was a financial slaughter.
That kei car scandal was nothing. Check the history on the recall coverups in the 80s and the sex-ring scandal in the 90s. The latter being the one that buried Mitsubishis trajectory, as that is the one where MMJ cut their marketing resources to nil. Had that not happened, and the same volume of money was being funneled into the US market from Japan, who knows where we would be now. Frigging swingers.
Edit: oh ****, and not exactly the same thing, but error in judgment 0-0-0 was a financial slaughter.
May 4, 2018, 08:16 AM
#24
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
It's Mitsubishi's fault in the sense that they went with Takata as a vendor. The reason for the double recall is understandable though, mitsubishi and all the other MFG's that used them had a duty to reduce potential law suits so they issued the recall even though a suitable replacement was not yet available. They just did the Fight Club math and this is what ended up being less risky for them.
May 4, 2018, 09:46 AM
#25
EvoM Community Team Leader
Well look at it from the other direction. Lets say the Takata malfunction is disclosed and Mitsubishi just throws up their hands and says "Hey guys this isn't our fault, so your on your own."? I don't think that would go over too well. I didn't mean fault in the sense that anyone at mitsubishi did anything criminal, or people should be in jail (Takata is a whole different story). They are however the ones that are building the final end product and selling them to consumers, its on them to not be handing out potential death traps. If you just follow the causation train back far enough nothing is really anybodies "Fault" in the sense you guys are talking.
May 4, 2018, 10:03 AM
#26
Accountability & reporting procedures have increased 10 fold, for OEM's, since the Firestone Ford Explorer roll over issue.
Theres a Govt procedure in-place called the TREAD act (look it up). Been around for at least 15 years (i personally work w/the system, since Im in the industry)
Its the Govt's way of an early warning system to detect issues like the Takata problem (largest automotive recall in history)
Theres a Govt procedure in-place called the TREAD act (look it up). Been around for at least 15 years (i personally work w/the system, since Im in the industry)
Its the Govt's way of an early warning system to detect issues like the Takata problem (largest automotive recall in history)
May 4, 2018, 12:13 PM
#27
EvoM Community Team Leader
Accountability & reporting procedures have increased 10 fold, for OEM's, since the Firestone Ford Explorer roll over issue.
Theres a Govt procedure in-place called the TREAD act (look it up). Been around for at least 15 years (i personally work w/the system, since Im in the industry)
Its the Govt's way of an early warning system to detect issues like the Takata problem (largest automotive recall in history)
Theres a Govt procedure in-place called the TREAD act (look it up). Been around for at least 15 years (i personally work w/the system, since Im in the industry)
Its the Govt's way of an early warning system to detect issues like the Takata problem (largest automotive recall in history)
May 4, 2018, 12:22 PM
#28
I work in the auto industry & involved w/reporting our warranty claim issues quarterly to NHTSA
May 4, 2018, 03:33 PM
#29
Well look at it from the other direction. Lets say the Takata malfunction is disclosed and Mitsubishi just throws up their hands and says "Hey guys this isn't our fault, so your on your own."? I don't think that would go over too well. I didn't mean fault in the sense that anyone at mitsubishi did anything criminal, or people should be in jail (Takata is a whole different story). They are however the ones that are building the final end product and selling them to consumers, its on them to not be handing out potential death traps. If you just follow the causation train back far enough nothing is really anybodies "Fault" in the sense you guys are talking.
Mitsubishi or any other vendor can not be held to blame for the issue, only their response to it. Regardless of the vendor, the manufacturer is responsible for correcting the issue. Now if they or Honda or whomever was privy to the information and chose to move forward with known volatile parts, different story. But no manufacturer can be responsible for reengineering every single part that is designed by another manufacturer just in case they were dishonest (out oblivious) about their part. At that point out would be cheaper to just produce it themselves making the vendor no longer necessary.
The liability still rests on Mitsubishi to take care of the issue, whether it be at takatas handling or a third party. If they ignore the issue or try to sweep it under the rug like in the 80s, then yeah it's instantly theirs to blame as they did not do their due diligence to correct a design flaw.
Like you said, if mitsu threw their hands up and said "oh well, we didn't make it, good luck!" Then yeah it's on them instantly. But when a vendor lies to the entire industry about the safety of their product, falsifies information to make it appear safe, then once it is discovered by the manufacturers they do everything in their power to correct the issue even well outside of warranty.... Anyone blaming the manufacturer is just butthurt and/or a delicate flower that needs special treatment. Bad things happen to good people.
May 4, 2018, 03:45 PM
#30
On a side note, the 06.5-07 Lancers that have the dual stage passenger bag never got any indication of interim replacement and as of yet no notification of a new vendor (daicel etc).
i had to change another one of these today and had me wondering if they changed from ammonium nitrate on those or if they'll be getting a second recall on them too.
i had to change another one of these today and had me wondering if they changed from ammonium nitrate on those or if they'll be getting a second recall on them too.