So Emre, what would you suggest? I, like a few others on the board I'm sure, need to use my back seat (no rollcage) daily, and the stock belts do NOT keep me planted well enough in the seat. I am seriously considering the harness bar since it fits my needs surprisingly well. If I am at a higher risk of serious injury by using it, of course it makes sense to stay away from it.

There are LOTS of guys running 3" harnesses in track cars without roll bars - most of which are improperly mounted I might add - does the addition of the fifth belt actually help any without a rollbar? I would think it would be worse by keeping you fully upright in the seat. What other options are there? FWIW, I contacted Sparco back in June about the bar (post in the Motorsports forum), I will be emailing my contact there to see what Sparco's position is on this issue.

 

You may get away with using a harness bar at an auto cross, but using one at a track day is suicidal... if the car goes over, the roof only has to come down a few inches to impact the spine of a 6 foot person with helmet. I'd even go so far as to say you'd even be better off at the auto cross with a simple extra lap belt (what I use) to keep you seated.

PS I don't care who sells them (that would be anyone who can make money at it), it is still unsafe. I also have to retain the use of my back seats... hence, no roll bar/harnesses yet.

 

That's a tough one to answer. you have to think of safety equipment as a system. On the one hand, you've got stock seats, stock inertia reel belts, plus airbag. On the other you've got fixed-back racing seats, 5- or 6-point harnesses (depending on the seatback angle), and some roll protection. Everything else is a potentially-dangerous compromise.

In a frontal impact, your inerta reel belt acts as a pulley: as your upper body moves up, the lap belt tightens, and your hips stay reasonably well-planted in the seat. Your upper body keeps moving forward and the airbag helps reduce craniofacial trauma. This system works pretty well.

But think about what happens with a 4-point harness. As your upper body moves up and out, the shoulder belts actually pull your lap belt up off your hips. Then your upper body suddenly stops when the shoulder belts stop stretching...but your body keep moving forward, so you get shoved down. Since the lap belt is no longer tight, your hips now slide forward under the lap belt. This WILL cause major intra-abdominal trauma...like lacerations to your liver, spleen, bladder, and intestines. You can bleed liters of blood into your belly within a couple of minutes. This is why you absolutely MUST use some sort of anti-sub strap(s) with any harness system.

Now think about what happens when the roof comes down in a roll-over situation. Your stock seat-back is designed to collapse. Plus, the stock 3-point belt will allow your body to slide sideways towards the center of the car. But if you've got a harness bar behind you, your seat-back will not be able to collapse...but your neck sure will This is how the former president of the COM Sports Car Club died. He slid his Corvette backwards into a wall. The seat-back collapsed, but his harness bar was in the way and it broke his neck.


The bottom line with safety equipment is either stick with all-stock, or go all-out and get a proper 5- or 6-point harness fixed-back seat, and roll-protection. Don't do a half-assed job of it. A cheap 4-point "tuner style" harness attached to harness bar is probably OK for auto-x. But I sure as hell wouldn't hit the track or drive around on the street like that.


In a high-speed frontal impact, yes, a 5-point belt attached to a harness bar is probably better than a stock seatbelt. However, you will be screwed in a rollover or rearward collision. Better make sure you never spin the car Like I said, either stick with stock or go all-out. Anything else is a compromise and a big-time gamble.

Emre

 

Rollover on eVo isn't that bad... say compare to Prelude. man, you rollover on prelude, you'll be crushed to your pelvic bones.

There is a thread about this on every forum I've been to.

4 point harness or 5 point straps you in, so you can't bend over when you rollover and the roof caves in.

There is a video of a rollover with the guy wearing a helmet and 4 point harness on a stock recaro.

He came out alright. He rolled couple of times. The front part of his roof caved in, car totalled.

You could always install your harness to your seat mount. or back seat mount...

 

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/evosafety.htm

See above site for harnesses a friend of mine just bought some for his Evo fits very nice.

 

I'm in the same boat. I've been thinking of a 6 point cage with removable back stays, diagonals and harness bars. This would keep the back seat free from obstructions for daily use. From what I can tell, while not ideal, if such a configuration was properly designed it would meet FIA, NASA and SCCA regulations.

This is an extremely informative post. Keep the information flowing!

 

but isnt in on a track that youre supposed to have the roll cage welded not bolted on? but i like the idea of the back cage being able to take off for daily usage or either that we could sport the sparco evo rollcage which is nicely tucked and still have the room at the back seat.

 

I have been 'thinking' about a roll-cage also. If I do more track days next year, I'll probably just do it. I'm just about done modifying my car (a few more goodies) and if I spend more money on it, safety would be a good place to start. A full-cage with a Recaro race seat and 5 point harness would do the trick. Probably $2500 well spent.

 

What about the dangers of a roll cage in a street driven car?

Even with padding on the bars, I don't think it is safe to drive a car with a cage when I'm not wearing a helmet.

Mark

 

NOTE: COMMERCIAL POST!

My name is Bruce Mather and my company manufactures the CG-Lock (TM).

We do not take a position on whether a full harness can create a hazard under some circumstances. We all know that a standard three-point factory installed harness doesn't always provide adequate protection, and that for aggressive driving, a harness improves safety under most circumstances.

My reason for writing is simply to point out there is now an option to a full harness FOR THOSE DRIVING SITUATIONS WHERE A STANDARD FACTORY-INSTALLED THREE-POINT HARNESS IS CONSIDERED ADEQUATE SAFETY.

This product is the CG-Lock. We will not violate the rules of this forum by trying to sell. We just wanted to bring this to your attention.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Bruce Mather
302-234-8110

 

Thank you must we be such nit pic people. I mean you have just a regular seat belt in the 1st place. so the additional restraint most likely isnt going to hurt you worse

 

I have linked this thread in an email to a contact I have at Sparco USA. He replied that Sparco WILL be addressing the issues brought forth in this thread. Not to say that their response will be the end-all answer, but at least we've given them something to think about. Stay tuned...

 

given the likelihood of lawsuits I would be shocked if you got anything less than a warning about intended uses. it's not a matter of ***** it's a matter of survival. with Sparco, with anybody, about anything.

 

At least they're responding. I'm not expecting them to contradict the info in this thread, but 'perhaps' they have done some testing with the piece, who knows.