Alignment Specs
Originally Posted by ovenmit331
ok, so i changed my mind and called them back. asked the tech how much negative camber could be run all around and he said -2º up front and -1.5º in the rear. so i decided to change to -1.8º front camber and -1º rear camber. woo hoo, i love toying with things.
heh. yeah, tinkering gets addictive.
good starting point settings, you'll be happy.
for a while, at least...
Originally Posted by Scottybob
I had no change in front height with the Tien camber plates I used.
Also, with the 3+ degrees of camber my treadwear on the race tires was DRASTICLY improved.
...
Also, with the 3+ degrees of camber my treadwear on the race tires was DRASTICLY improved.
...
you are using the stock struts with the camber plates, right? does tein sell plates alone, or are they from a coilover set?
in any case, yeah, with my current setup, i'm amazed at how even my treadwear has been at -2.5f -1.5r on the street, no less. i'm playing with about -3f and .01"f toe out for my track setup, but i'm trying to get my hands on a pyrometer before getting too excited about it.
dying to get back on track....
semi confused/angered. just got the car back after asking for camber of -1.8º in front and -1.0º in the rear, and a little toe-in all around. They took measurements before and after and, well, this is what the printout shows:
So BASICALLY they added a TINY bit of negative camber to the front wheels and set them at -1.0º and actually lowered the negative (less negative) camber in the rear and set it at ~ -1.0º. And i'm pretty clueless as far as the toe goes. there seems to be a little toe-in all around so i guess that looks good. but basically my alignment was already set this way. Any thoughts? I'm about to call them back and see what they say...
Originally Posted by PRINTOUT
............. Front: Left .................................................. . Front: Right
---------------------------------------- .................. ---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.0º |-0.9º |-1.5º to -0.5º | ..... Camber ..... |-1.1º |-0.9º |-1.5º to -0.5º |
| 3.6º | 3.6º | 3.4º to 4.4º | ......... Caster ..... | 3.8º | 3.6º | 3.4º to 4.4º |
|0.08º |0.04º |-0.08º to 0.08º| ....... Toe ...... |0.07º |0.03º|-0.08º to 0.08º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Front
----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
----------------------------------------
| 0.2º | 0.0º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Camber
|-0.2º | 0.0º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Caster
|0.15º|0.07º|-0.16º to 0.16º| Total Toe
----------------------------------------
......... Rear: Left ....................................... Rear: Right
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.2º |-1.3º |-1.5º to -0.5º | ..... Camber ..... |-0.9º |-1.1º |-1.5º to -0.5º |
|0.07º |0.01º | 0.04º to 0.20º| ....... Toe ...... |0.10º | 0.20º| 0.04º to 0.20º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Rear
---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------
|0.18º |0.19º |-0.15º to 0.15º| Total Toe
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------- .................. ---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.0º |-0.9º |-1.5º to -0.5º | ..... Camber ..... |-1.1º |-0.9º |-1.5º to -0.5º |
| 3.6º | 3.6º | 3.4º to 4.4º | ......... Caster ..... | 3.8º | 3.6º | 3.4º to 4.4º |
|0.08º |0.04º |-0.08º to 0.08º| ....... Toe ...... |0.07º |0.03º|-0.08º to 0.08º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Front
----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
----------------------------------------
| 0.2º | 0.0º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Camber
|-0.2º | 0.0º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Caster
|0.15º|0.07º|-0.16º to 0.16º| Total Toe
----------------------------------------
......... Rear: Left ....................................... Rear: Right
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.2º |-1.3º |-1.5º to -0.5º | ..... Camber ..... |-0.9º |-1.1º |-1.5º to -0.5º |
|0.07º |0.01º | 0.04º to 0.20º| ....... Toe ...... |0.10º | 0.20º| 0.04º to 0.20º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Rear
---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------
|0.18º |0.19º |-0.15º to 0.15º| Total Toe
---------------------------------------
I talked to the alignment tech and he said that when he set the eccentric bolt for as much negative camber as possible and then tightened it, one came back to -1.1 and the other to -1.4 so he set both for -1.1. he also said there is an aftermarket eccentric bolt that will allow up to -2.0 which I might get. haven't heard anything about this before though. Anyone know anything about it. he said it's like $20. any help would be GREATLY appreciated
Originally Posted by ovenmit331
I talked to the alignment tech and he said that when he set the eccentric bolt for as much negative camber as possible and then tightened it, one came back to -1.1 and the other to -1.4 so he set both for -1.1. he also said there is an aftermarket eccentric bolt that will allow up to -2.0 which I might get. haven't heard anything about this before though. Anyone know anything about it. he said it's like $20. any help would be GREATLY appreciated
Visually check the arrows on your excentric bolts to make sure they are pointing in the right direction. Both should be pointing to the OUTSIDE of the car for max negative camber.
Its also possible that they took the final camber readings without having settled the suspension after making adjustments. I'll be glad to explain this if needed, I'm feeling lazy right now.
Edit: The car is going to under steer like a pig on the track with those settings.
Last edited by Scottybob; May 5, 2005 at 05:07 PM.
Originally Posted by geminix3
interesting, i've never seen plates that mount at the same height as the stock bushings, but then i've never seen the teins.
you are using the stock struts with the camber plates, right? does tein sell plates alone, or are they from a coilover set?
in any case, yeah, with my current setup, i'm amazed at how even my treadwear has been at -2.5f -1.5r on the street, no less. i'm playing with about -3f and .01"f toe out for my track setup, but i'm trying to get my hands on a pyrometer before getting too excited about it.
dying to get back on track....
you are using the stock struts with the camber plates, right? does tein sell plates alone, or are they from a coilover set?
in any case, yeah, with my current setup, i'm amazed at how even my treadwear has been at -2.5f -1.5r on the street, no less. i'm playing with about -3f and .01"f toe out for my track setup, but i'm trying to get my hands on a pyrometer before getting too excited about it.
dying to get back on track....
I got em off E-bay from one of those people who look like they are running their own import business, if you know what I mean. Not sure if they are available from the Tein U.S. distribution system. They look exactly like the works plates you can see on their web site.
My setup is otherwise stock.
PM me about the pyrometer, I'm thinking about upgrading my probe type.
Originally Posted by Scottybob
Visually check the arrows on your excentric bolts to make sure they are pointing in the right direction. Both should be pointing to the OUTSIDE of the car for max negative camber.
Its also possible that they took the final camber readings without having settled the suspension after making adjustments. I'll be glad to explain this if needed, I'm feeling lazy right now.
Edit: The car is going to under steer like a pig on the track with those settings.
Its also possible that they took the final camber readings without having settled the suspension after making adjustments. I'll be glad to explain this if needed, I'm feeling lazy right now.
Edit: The car is going to under steer like a pig on the track with those settings.
and which of those settings is going to cause understeer. I'm taking it back to possibly get aftermarket excentric bolts so i can go with more negative camber and if something else needs to be changed, i'd like to know...
thanks again guys.
Originally Posted by ovenmit331
yeah, explain more por favor. and anyone have a picture of the excentric bolts? I wouldn't even know where to begin.
and which of those settings is going to cause understeer. I'm taking it back to possibly get aftermarket excentric bolts so i can go with more negative camber and if something else needs to be changed, i'd like to know...
thanks again guys.
and which of those settings is going to cause understeer. I'm taking it back to possibly get aftermarket excentric bolts so i can go with more negative camber and if something else needs to be changed, i'd like to know...
thanks again guys.
What is going to cause understeer is the lack of front camber compaired to how much camber you have in the rear. You are going to be lacking front traction because the tire is going to roll over onto the outside shoulder as the outside suspension compresses in a turn. Meanwhile the rear has plenty of traction, so the front looses traction well before the rear = Understeer. I cant imagine any reason you can not get at least -1.5+ degrees of front camber.
camber bolt pics.
ScottyBob, thanks a ton man.
ok, i'm gonna call the shop and ask about checking the camber (excentric) bolts and the directions of the arrows. hopefully that problem gets resolved.
how do the toe settings look? i know about camber settings but for toe, i'm kinda clueless... are they ok or should i have them adjust that any?
*EDIT* well I just set up an "over-the-shoulder" appointment with the tech at my alignment shop on monday. gonna check out the arrow direction on those excentric bolts and point them the other direction since they're obviously pointing in the -1.0º direction. Hopefully after this the camber will be -2.0º in front and -1.0º in rear. is there a problem with -1.2º left rear camber and -0.9º right rear camber???
sorry for all the questions guys, i just wanna get this right.
ok, i'm gonna call the shop and ask about checking the camber (excentric) bolts and the directions of the arrows. hopefully that problem gets resolved.
how do the toe settings look? i know about camber settings but for toe, i'm kinda clueless... are they ok or should i have them adjust that any?
*EDIT* well I just set up an "over-the-shoulder" appointment with the tech at my alignment shop on monday. gonna check out the arrow direction on those excentric bolts and point them the other direction since they're obviously pointing in the -1.0º direction. Hopefully after this the camber will be -2.0º in front and -1.0º in rear. is there a problem with -1.2º left rear camber and -0.9º right rear camber???
sorry for all the questions guys, i just wanna get this right.
Last edited by ovenmit331; May 6, 2005 at 08:33 AM.
Much Better
Went back and worked on the alignment with the tech guy. Best we could do after flipping the excentric bolt was -1.5º and -1.3º. Better than before, heres the new readout:
pretty much added some more negative camber in the front and everything else pretty much stayed the same...
Originally Posted by PRINTOUT
............. Front: Left .................................................. . Front: Right
---------------------------------------- .................. ---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.5º |-0.8º |-2.3º to -0.8º | ..... Camber ..... |-1.3º |-1.0º |-2.3º to -0.8º |
| 3.4º | 3.5º | 3.4º to 4.4º | ......... Caster ..... | 3.6º | 3.6º | 3.4º to 4.4º |
|0.06º |0.05º |-0.08º to 0.08º| ....... Toe ...... |0.05º |0.07º|-0.08º to 0.08º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Front
----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
----------------------------------------
| -0.2º| 0.2º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Camber
|-0.1º |-0.2º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Caster
|0.11º|0.12º|-0.16º to 0.16º| Total Toe
----------------------------------------
......... Rear: Left ....................................... Rear: Right
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.1º |-1.0º |-1.5º to -0.5º | ..... Camber ..... |-1.0º |-1.1º |-1.5º to -0.5º |
|0.12º |0.12º | 0.04º to 0.20º| ....... Toe ...... |0.15º | 0.08º| 0.04º to 0.20º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Rear
---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------
|0.27º |0.20º |-0.15º to 0.15º| Total Toe
---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------- .................. ---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.5º |-0.8º |-2.3º to -0.8º | ..... Camber ..... |-1.3º |-1.0º |-2.3º to -0.8º |
| 3.4º | 3.5º | 3.4º to 4.4º | ......... Caster ..... | 3.6º | 3.6º | 3.4º to 4.4º |
|0.06º |0.05º |-0.08º to 0.08º| ....... Toe ...... |0.05º |0.07º|-0.08º to 0.08º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Front
----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
----------------------------------------
| -0.2º| 0.2º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Camber
|-0.1º |-0.2º | -0.5º to 0.5º | Cross Caster
|0.11º|0.12º|-0.16º to 0.16º| Total Toe
----------------------------------------
......... Rear: Left ....................................... Rear: Right
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range| .................. |Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
|-1.1º |-1.0º |-1.5º to -0.5º | ..... Camber ..... |-1.0º |-1.1º |-1.5º to -0.5º |
|0.12º |0.12º | 0.04º to 0.20º| ....... Toe ...... |0.15º | 0.08º| 0.04º to 0.20º|
---------------------------------------- .................. ----------------------------------------
........... Rear
---------------------------------------
|Actual|Before|Specified Range|
---------------------------------------
|0.27º |0.20º |-0.15º to 0.15º| Total Toe
---------------------------------------
Originally Posted by VTECH8TR
Thanks for the info ovenmitt331. I am trying to get mine aligned so i can take some corners HARD. I will attempt -2.5 Front and -1.5 rear....
IMO, I would not recommend -1.5 rear camber untill you get up to about -3.0 front.
If the camber bolts are correct, then that is about all you are going to get with the stock stuff. They only have basicly two ways they can go into the tabs on the struts, so if you are looking for more negative camber you are going to have to use some aftermarket solution.
If the camber bolts are correct, then that is about all you are going to get with the stock stuff. They only have basicly two ways they can go into the tabs on the struts, so if you are looking for more negative camber you are going to have to use some aftermarket solution.
Originally Posted by ovenmit331
if you have a stock suspension there's no way you'll get those numbers. -2.0º is the MOST you can do up front on the stock susp. There's rumors of aftermarket excentric bolts that will allow you to do more, but i've never tried them or talked to anyone running them with stock suspension. -1.5º in the rear will probably be possible.
.
