Brake fluid cooling elemente??
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From: Germany
Brake fluid cooling elements??
Hmm, yesterday while chatting to Andre I had an idea which I'm sure quite a few people have had before me:
Is there any sense in fitting a brake fluid cooler/cooling elements to cool the brake fluid down and keep it from boiling? I think it'll work, but has anyone ever done that? Must be somewhere where that's used...
Is there any sense in fitting a brake fluid cooler/cooling elements to cool the brake fluid down and keep it from boiling? I think it'll work, but has anyone ever done that? Must be somewhere where that's used...
Last edited by Michaelk; Jan 15, 2002 at 02:51 AM.
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its almost like saying should I add a cooler to the radiator to help cool it down faster. Brake fluid has a very high temperature rating. That means the brake fluid will hold up to what the label says or in our case the DOT specifications. Oil when reached at a certain tempertaure will lose its characteristics and will not lube/protect/cool the system. Whether it is the engine, brake fluid or anti-freeze. changing the brake fluid earlier than the manfactures requires will not void your warranty. Most of the time people over look the brake, tranny, differential, clutch fluids which should be replaced every year. The manufacture might say 30k miles but in all reality its up to you.
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From: LOndon
Michael
The important bit to cool is the bit in the caliperand possibly the first few cm of pipe. The issue is that to the best of my knowledge, brake fluid doesn't "flow" around the system so any cooling needs to be very local. Surely the answer therefore is water cooled brakes to cool the calipers so that the fluid doesn't boil.
The important bit to cool is the bit in the caliperand possibly the first few cm of pipe. The issue is that to the best of my knowledge, brake fluid doesn't "flow" around the system so any cooling needs to be very local. Surely the answer therefore is water cooled brakes to cool the calipers so that the fluid doesn't boil.
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You see, now that explains why nobody has done something like that before... but surely steel-flex hoses will transmit the heat of the caliper nicely and fitting some cooling fins on them.... it WILL have an effect, the question is how big...
What fluid are you using. Motul has a real high boiling point, wet and dry. I can't imagine boiling it with just spirited driving. You would have to change it often though, especially if it rains a lot.
Mark
Mark
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Not boiliing my fluid, yet... I still use standard pads but some harsher one's are on order so the system will get a lot hotter. Just checking what's possible and if it makes sense...
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Re: Brake fluid cooling elements??
Originally posted by Michaelk
Is there any sense in fitting a brake fluid cooler/cooling elements to cool the brake fluid down and keep it from boiling?
Is there any sense in fitting a brake fluid cooler/cooling elements to cool the brake fluid down and keep it from boiling?
Originally posted by Michaelk
errr, that had nothing to do with what I was asking??
errr, that had nothing to do with what I was asking??
Originally posted by KK
What fluid are you using. Motul has a real high boiling point, wet and dry. I can't imagine boiling it with just spirited driving. You would have to change it often though, especially if it rains a lot.
Mark
What fluid are you using. Motul has a real high boiling point, wet and dry. I can't imagine boiling it with just spirited driving. You would have to change it often though, especially if it rains a lot.
Mark
Originally posted by Michaelk
Not boiliing my fluid, yet... I still use standard pads but some harsher one's are on order so the system will get a lot hotter. Just checking what's possible and if it makes sense...
Not boiliing my fluid, yet... I still use standard pads but some harsher one's are on order so the system will get a lot hotter. Just checking what's possible and if it makes sense...
later,
Angels of Evo
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From: LOndon
Angel
Sorry to say that it is possible to boil almost anything if you try and it is a known problem. That is why extreme applications use water cooling. That is not a good idea on an Evo so Michael's idea has some merit. However to make it really work there would be a need to ensure that there was good airflow over the fins.
Mark
It dep[ends what you call spirited driving. Many of us use our Evos on tarcks or drive on mountain roads that are used for rally stages. Michael will be taking his car around the 'Ring where you can destroy your brakes in less that a lap.
Michael
I wonder whether a bigger effect would come from thinking of a way to draw heat out of the caliper itself?
Sorry to say that it is possible to boil almost anything if you try and it is a known problem. That is why extreme applications use water cooling. That is not a good idea on an Evo so Michael's idea has some merit. However to make it really work there would be a need to ensure that there was good airflow over the fins.
Mark
It dep[ends what you call spirited driving. Many of us use our Evos on tarcks or drive on mountain roads that are used for rally stages. Michael will be taking his car around the 'Ring where you can destroy your brakes in less that a lap.
Michael
I wonder whether a bigger effect would come from thinking of a way to draw heat out of the caliper itself?
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Originally posted by snelson
Angel
Sorry to say that it is possible to boil almost anything if you try and it is a known problem. That is why extreme applications use water cooling. That is not a good idea on an Evo so Michael's idea has some merit. However to make it really work there would be a need to ensure that there was good airflow over the fins.
Angel
Sorry to say that it is possible to boil almost anything if you try and it is a known problem. That is why extreme applications use water cooling. That is not a good idea on an Evo so Michael's idea has some merit. However to make it really work there would be a need to ensure that there was good airflow over the fins.
later,
Angels of Evo
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From: Germany
in the mean time what does mitsubishi do to theirs to ensure the brakes work the entire race?
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From: LOndon
I should have said that water cooled calipers are not a good idea on a ROAD car. This is because you would use as much water as fuel! OK when doing stage rallies but it might need a big water tank unless you want to stop every 50 miles 
BTW Michael, I believe that Grp N allows you to use different calipers but not water cooling.
BTW Michael, I believe that Grp N allows you to use different calipers but not water cooling.
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Simon
I like your humour!
Damn, I never thought about the fact you need to refill the water tank for the caliper cooling that often! That's no good then indeed for road, even hard road use. You have got the AP 6 pots, right?
Michael,
What about the brake cooling ducts? OK, they are horribly expensive, but should have some effect, right?
My American friends
On a twisty track or on a special stage type mountain road, you brake as hard as you can from say 60-70mph to 40 mph or from 50 to 20 every 5 seconds, sometimes more often, sometimes a little less. After a few miles, the brakes start fading, then smoking, the liquid starts to boil, the discs are red and so hot you cannot touch the wheel. But you can see the discs, even nighttime without light...
You guys mention the Mobil brake fluid with the high boiling point. What is the boiling point of that liquid? I use Tarox silicone based brake fluid with a 330 degree Celsius boiling point. SO does MAXI. But it still boils at some point.
I like your humour!
Damn, I never thought about the fact you need to refill the water tank for the caliper cooling that often! That's no good then indeed for road, even hard road use. You have got the AP 6 pots, right?Michael,
What about the brake cooling ducts? OK, they are horribly expensive, but should have some effect, right?
My American friends
On a twisty track or on a special stage type mountain road, you brake as hard as you can from say 60-70mph to 40 mph or from 50 to 20 every 5 seconds, sometimes more often, sometimes a little less. After a few miles, the brakes start fading, then smoking, the liquid starts to boil, the discs are red and so hot you cannot touch the wheel. But you can see the discs, even nighttime without light...
You guys mention the Mobil brake fluid with the high boiling point. What is the boiling point of that liquid? I use Tarox silicone based brake fluid with a 330 degree Celsius boiling point. SO does MAXI. But it still boils at some point.