Right now I'm stock suspension, stock tires on MR wheels but they're starting to get a little chewed...so what I'm looking to do is get a set of rims/tires for auto x and maybe a road course event or two. I really don't want to spend $250 + per tire for the stockers again so I researched a bunch of tires and keep coming back to the Toyo RA1 and the Falken rt615.

Now my buddy has rt615's on his coil overed STi and I some how got him by .1 on the last auto x and someone said it was because the rt615's arent quite as sticky as my factory rubber, at the same time a similarly modded Evo was beating me by a full second on some well worn RA1's and light enkei wheels. So I'm figuring the Toyo RA1's are the shiznit for auto x but I see websites saying they don't work well for auto x cause they need a lot of heat to work, but the RT615's are best for auto x...when I felt my buddies Falkens they seemed to be a lot harder of a tire then the RA1's so I'm confused...

The tires will see normal Auto X use but maybe a road course event once or twice a year so I'm more focused on them working for auto x...any pointers? Are the 615s really superior in auto x until the Toyos warm up?

 

Well, these tires are not comparable. RA-1s are r-compound tires. RT-615s are street tires like the Advans. You're right that the RT-615s aren't quite as good as the Advan A046, but they are as close as you get for half the price. RA-1s are one of the top racing tires out there, because they perform at a high level, last longer than most, and they get better with age. However, they are not for daily driving unless you put very few miles on your car or don't mind changing them quite often.

RA-1s are probably better overall as a road race tire, but they're still good for auto-x - better than street tires. RT-615s are not superior, and you will not be competitive in any race tire class with them. If you are in a street tire class, you can't use RA-1s. These should be your determining factors along with whether or not you daily drive your car.

 

I have owned both and the RA-1 is by far a better tire for racing duty. It has a bit of tread squirm at full depth, but as they wear down they get much better. Or you can buy them shaved from frisbyracetire.com and have no squirm from day 1.

The RA-1's are pretty sticky right off the blocks, so I can't see the RT-615 having an advantage in any situation whatsoever.

In some classes your tires have to be treadwear rated at 200+ which the RA-1's are not, and the RT-615's are, so keep that in mind, too. If treadwear rating doesn't matter, go with the RA-1's ... you will be faster every time.

 

Agree.

The street tire classes are 140+, but the RA-1 still doesn't cut it.

 

Well I'm buying either 5zigens or Kosei T1s to put new tires on for the track, so they don't need to see everyday street use. Right now the main thing is Auto X cause thats whats more readily availible to me frequently, so far we had about 3 in 3 weeks so this is what I'm more interested in. I'm in the "unlimited" class in Auto X anyway so I'm pretty much in the same class as slicked up race cars.

I'm just looking for something with the same grip as the stockers without the $250ish + price tag, I keep seeing people say the RA1's need heat to grip but they have AA traction compared to the RT615s A and they seem gummier then 615s but people say they tend to be greasey feeling until they heat...don't have a lot of time to heat the tire on a 40 second to 1 minute course so I just want something that grips well no matter what.

I know if I want to win a class I should look at cheater slicks like the Kumho v710s but I'm looking for something with tread just incase I had to drive home on one, and I'm on totally stock suspension/this is my first year going auto x'ing so I'm not planning on winning anything just yet...just don't want to drop $800ish on tires and get stuck sliding around the track.

 

Ok, so wait. You're getting a 2nd set of rims for track use only? In that case, you shouldn't mess around with a street tire. Get RA-1s or get some badass 245/45-17 Kumho Ecsta V710s. They will blow the doors off RA-1s, and with some Kosei T1s that weigh 15-16lbs (5Zigen = 19lbs), you'll have a nice setup that isn't too expensive. The V710s cost about the same as the RA-1s, but both cost about 40-50 more per tire than the Falkens. The Falkens are a great stock replacement, but I wouldn't buy them to go on a second set of track rims.

I don't know why you'd have to drive home on the race tires. If you are doing this as a 2nd set, then you just drive there on your street tires/rims and change them at the race. I do this for every event. I also am on totally stock suspension and have been rocking out big time in SCCA auto-x events as well as NASA road racing events.

 

Its true that the Ra1s arent the fastest autox tire, but i think they offer one of the best compromises of grip/wear out of any R comp tire out there (nitto nt01 too, but i havent tried them yet ;-)). I have about a season and a half of autox on mine (~ 30 events, ~175 runs, ~ 2000 street miles), and they are just about ready to cord. I personally think thats great for a set of compunds. Im only about a second or 2 behind the guys at my local autox who run v710's, and they would be lucky to get half as many runs.

Unless you want to run in the street tire class I wouldnt waste my time with the 615's. They are a great street tire, but they still arent a race tire... They will last a while, but you wont get the awesome grip of an r compund.

On the other hand there are tires like the kumho v710's and hoosier A6. They are VERY sticky, but wont last long at all. If you are new to autox, and on stock suspension I would stay away from something this sticky. Not only do they offer grip levels that will overwhelm your stock suspension, but they will also hide a lot of your rookie autox mistakes. No matter how ham fisted you drive they will just grip grip grip; which really isnt the best way to learn how to become a smooth/ fast driver.


Kuhmo v710/ Hoosier A6: Great grip , low life

Falken 615/ Advan a046: Ok grip , long life

Toyo Ra1/ Nitto Nt01: Good grip/ Good life ahhh just right

 

bottom line is you have to look at what you're really going to do with the tires and how good of a driver you are. You're probably not looking to nationals in autoX or do a ton of track days so you really don't need a second set of rims... just replace your worn out tires with some 615s and call it a day... I just did two track days at the glen on stock suspension and I can tell you that the weak link is still "me" and not which tires I had. Once you're at the point where you've got your lines perfect you'll be willing to spend the money on better tires, until then, go to discount tires direct and spend $540ish shipped for a set of 615s (255/45/17) and burn them up and have fun.

 

Well my Evo is my daily driver and I noticed I am eating up my Advans really quick, need to be able to make my commute to work weather its raining etc etc so I'd rather have a set of tires just for the track that I can wear down to nothing and not have to worry about tread depth and then keep my daily driver tires for driving to and from work. The evo at the last auto x told me he daily drove his ra1's and got almost a full season out of them with auto x's in between, I figure if I use them only for road racing/auto x I should be able to get a year out of them without even trying.

The pricing on the v710s was a tad higher then the RA1's and they're slick so that kinda turned me away from them in case there was an emergency and I had to throw them on, but if they're really that close in price I'll check them out.

Also I did research on the weights only reason I was contemplating the 5zigens is because they're roughly $40 cheaper per rim and were advertised at 17 lbs each, same weight as the MR wheels I'm on now.

 

17X9 5Zigen are 19lbs. If you are getting stock size, they may be closer to 17, but I'd be very surprised if they actually ARE 17lbs. I have Rota Torques as my 2nd set, and I use the BBS's for racing with the V710s, then the Torques for daily driving with the RT-615s.

I'm still not sure what you mean by these emergency worries of putting on the other tires. Most people don't even have a 2nd set of wheels/tires, and you haven't had any to this point, so what is worrying you so much about needing to put on the 2nd set for emergencies? You didn't even have a 2nd set before now (and still don't), so what would you have done then? RA-1s are a great choice, so don't get me wrong, but it just doesn't make much sense to get a 2nd set of rims/tires for racing only, yet not get the best tire available, imo. My V710s were $179/ea, and the RA-1s with shaving were more. You need to shave RA-1s to make them most effective. If you don't shave them, they don't work as well at first and have the possibility of chunking.

 

I have two sets, stock enkeis with the advans that I will be selling for winter tires soon and then the mr wheels with the advans that I will most likely leave for daily driving and then a set for track.

 

Consider the fresher Advans on the stock Enkeis for daily driving, then replace them with RT-615s when they wear out, then put your race tires on the BBS's, whether that be 255/40-17 RA-1s or 245/45-17 V710s.

 

I found this thread very informative

 

I have both. I use the RT615s as street tires and RA1s at the track. I found the 615s to be grippier when cold compared to the RA1s, which is probably a characteristic you'd want for auto-x. The RA1s do need a little heat to get grippy, which usually takes about a lap to get warmed up. I haven't tracked my 615s, but I hear the tires get greasy after only a few laps so I haven't bothered trying. I actually get my RA1s greasy at the track, so I can't imagine how the 615s would do w/ my driving style.

 

The 615 are only good for one session a day. You should have a set of track tires and a set of street tires.