Pagid RS-15 on the first set. Performance Friction 01 compound on the next set.

 

Hmm. Well. PFC 01 should not have done that. That is regarded as the King of the Hill brake pad.

That brake system has been used for years since the Evo 5. I really can't imagine there's any design flaw that hasn't been found by now.

 

Hi Matt,
I currently hold an SCCA Pro license and am sitting 2nd in T2 points in the NE. I am not unfamiliar with bedding in brakes. This is a real problem particular to this car as I'm sure you will hear more and more. I have been working to develope the Evo for T2, as it will be allowed to run in that class in Jan., 2004. The car will be competitive in every respect, but this is its Achilles heel. If it rains at the 2004 Runoffs, this car could win with only the handbrake to slow it down! Any helpful suggestions would be much appreciated, as most of the people on this board are not roadracers and don't quite get it.
Cheers,

 

That's very, very true. I instructed in an Evo in the rain a few weeks ago, and rain simply did not exist to it.

We're working closely with several T2 drivers. Mark/Jordan Sandridge, Phil Croyle, Rob Hines, Stan Willson. All are on our new XP 1109 compound. Jordan and Mark finished 2/3 at the Runoffs last year with our 1108 compound which is a fairly significant step down.

I guess I need to reread all the posts again, and do a search to see if I can help you guys out any. But my understanding of the rules is that you can do nothing to the brakes except change pads. What you have is what you're stuck with. Is this incorrect?

 

Who else has put the Evo through its paces and what are your opinions on the car?

Matt, how did the car hold up during the instructing? How hard was the car pushed during this event? Where at?

 

Hi Matt,
I thought Mark was a Hawk fan? Anyway, pads, ss lines and fluid. Everything else stock.
Cheers,

 

wtz, You need to check the runout on your rotors before you jump to conclusions, another easy way to tell if it is buildup is if they feel warped when cold or just when hot? You may just need a pad that has less material transfer. Also remember the Group N discs which are made of a better grade iron. I think you (we) just need to find the "sweet" pad for the EVO.

On disconnecting the ABS I've heard that if you pull the ABS fuse you will kill ABS and EBD, if you pull a wheel speed sensor you leave the EBD working. You can also put some temp paint on front and rear calipers to see where they are. Good luck and keep posting (this is good stuff!)

 

I do not do frequent race tracks at all, so I'm not sure my experience is relevant - but I'll post it anyway :-)

I run R4S Porterfields in my street DSM and now Porterfield R4-1s in my autocross car. In both cars, I've had the rotors glowing and on the autocross car, I've suffered the (pad) "crumblies" more than once from over-enthusiastic LFB. But I have yet to warp a rotor on one of these cars. Thomas' comment is key, I always bring the wheel nuts up to torque progressively - my girlfriend's DSM exhibited warped rotor symptoms twice after after garages zipped the nuts up with an airgun and TorqueStix, that is definitely an issue, at least on DSMs. But autocross is very different from track time - I can cool my brakes off after each 90 second run, and I do. One issue I have run into is that if I torque the wheel nuts to factory spec they are extremely uneven after a run group. I now torque the nuts to 95 ft/lbs, and that seems to hold consistently - this of course could be more to do with the wheels (Kosei K-1s) than anything, I fully realise, but nonetheless...

Disconnecting the ABS is as simple as pulling the fuse ! I do this every winter in my 98, the Bosch ABS system being utterly awful in low traction situations. If the ABS units didn't cost $2k I'd convert to the 95's Denso system which is vastly superior.

I do not see material deposition with the Porterfield pads, though I am familiar with this (and the associated problems) from motorcycles. I went through several sets of rotors on my R1 in part due to this, before I finally gave up and accepted the inevitable. I would _love_ a set of HHs for my car(s) :-) Probably melt the rotors, but hey }-]

A fellow DSM owner had huge problems with a Wilwood-based front brake conversion due to caliper flex. Whilst I'm not suggesting caliper flex, I am wondering about your entire brake package. I note you have the "warmers" removed and ducting installed, so that does lead one to consider pad or rotor material / construction. What pads are you running ?

E46...I was _very_ surprised to see that the EVO is classed in AS stock but ESP modded. Whoever turns up with a well-driven ESP EVO will walk away with the title. A 2G DSM is right there for Nationals, and I suspect an EVO - once the requisite Ohlins have been sent to Ankeny for valving - will eat a 2G for breakfast. Cherry-picking :-)

Charles

 

He was until he ran our 1108 compound Now he won't touch the stuff. Calls it crap now. He actually commented in the post race interview at the Runoffs how well his car stopped all race (but alas, he did not mention our name...) Even David Hobbs commented during the race how he was able to outbrake just about anyone.

It was at Carolina Motorsports Park. My student was practicing for One Lap. The car held up very, very well. I would say he was driving at 8/10ths pace, perhaps 8.5. Understandable since the car was brand new and he had never been to that track before. But he certainly drove fast enough for me to tell that car was brilliant. He had completely stock brakes, including pads and they were rock solid. I know CMP is (seriously) one of if not *the* hardest track on brakes on the east coast. Absolutely brutal. Reported to be worse than with Black Hawk Farms and Sebring Long course (never been to those personally). Anywho, the pads were right there at the end of each session just like they were on the first lap, and he was giving 911 Turbos all they could handle. Rotors were in such good shape on Sunday I could almost see my reflection in them. I'm not kidding. That's why I'm just stunned you guys are having problems, because I was instructing in a decently driven one at a very hard braking track with absolutely zero problems.

 

Thanks Matt,
Good to hear. My little experience in pushing an evo was in a friends during break in and asked me to keep it below 5k rpms which was just fine by me, I was looking for handling, braking, and such other than power. In my 30 or so mins of twisties, three wheeling, and hard braking, I was very amazed at how well it felt.

I hope the problem here is identified and everyone else continues to enjoy their car without concern. After my "test drive", I was sold, now I'm working on getting rid of the current daily driver.

 

wtz & Matt,
Thanks for your exchanges. Sorry that I cannot contribute anything beyond what has already been stated. I've not been back to the track since taking delivery of my EVO but have plans to get back on SPR and the Jefferson Circuit at BSR several times in the coming months. Details concernig rotor runout, if detected, and your remedy to this problem will be very helpful to the rest of us. Please keep us posted.

 

one of my brakes screetch dammit and it started around 3000 miles... gay gay gay im going in for a pitstop this week anyways... but still wtf!!!

 

Hi All,
Total runout on my front discs was .005" left, and .006" right. My shop feels it is all due to friction material buildup on the disc. My question now is how the hell does one bed in race pads on the stock disc to achieve even material transfer?
Cheers,

 

Phew. I was starting to wonder a bit. Definitely keep the board posted. I might actually start watching SCCA road course action in 2004 if a fellow EVO is gonna be running. Kinda boring for me now with no DSM presence. I wish I had followed it more closely back when Archer was running.

Thomas Dorris

 

What kind of pads were these race pads? Could the cryo treating or truing have casued the problem leading to increased build up? It seams stock the Evo works flawlessly and changing it is leading to unbalanced sub systems and problems.